Surtees Centre Pod Cat

[redreuben]

Hi All,

I have posted this design before but the guy has actually built one and has some good pics on his website,
http://www.surteesmultihulls.com/9m-folding-catamaran

I quite like the "pod" concept, what do you think ?

RR

[Doug Lord]

I like it-Len seems to do really good work. He sent me some pictures of the first launching:

click on image:

[sabahcat]

Great looking boat, and floating nice and high as well.
Any idea on how they plan to step the mast?

Look forward to seeing how it goes in the bay to bay, I imagine it'll have to do it?

http://www.herveybaysailingclub.org.au/

[Doug Lord]

Sailing pictures coming fairly soon......

[bljones]

Interesting design- arguably, is it not a trimaran? It looks like the center pod would be in the water with a full cruising load.

[bruceb]

That is an interesting looking boat- I guess when the motor is down it is a tri, just a short waterline on the center hull I do wonder what is patentable about the folding system, that concecpt seems to have been around for a long time. B

[upchurchmr]

Talk about low bridgedeck clearance - this should pound in any sea, or ripple.
I like the special hull design which will ride up over things in the water - I wonder how many other boats are nearly identical? Lots.

Please someone tell me why is this interesting.

I don't ever want to trailer something with two large wind catching devices with no real support for the middle "pod" when on the trailer. At least with a flat bottomed center hull there is some resistance to the boat being turned over while on the trailer. Of course, with such wind catching hulls that high up there is the question - "will the trailer with the boat turn over"?

How do you get from the cockpit to anywhere else? Hop over the cockpit railing? Looks like a tiny cockpit, and a great way to fall overboard. If you had a saftey harness, how would you get back up? That problem is not unique to this boat, it just looks worse.

How much of the centerboard will still be in the water when the boat heels? First off it will ventilate since it is penetrates the water with no hull above it (in the water). Then its not very deep.

Nice paint job though.

Tell me again what there is to like? Actually I figured it out. The two outer hulls have a nice shape which could be converted into a conventional cat with relatively minimal issues - maybe.

[sabahcat]

Originally Posted by bljones

Interesting design- arguably, is it not a trimaran? It looks like the center pod would be in the water with a full cruising load.

Hmmm
Looks like you are right
Thats not good at all is it.

[Doug Lord]

Look at the picture in the water-there is lots of clearance for loading. I think the steep angle is unlikely to pound. I'm hoping Len will join the forum and discuss the boat a little.

click on image:

2nd and 3rd picture: very high performance Hydroptere.ch with center daggerboard and nacelle clearly visible-

[upchurchmr]

Doug,

Probably all boats look really good (floating high) with no rigging, no equipment, and no people.

I wonder how deep the daggerboard is on Hydroptere? Actually looking at the second picture the dagger looks quite long. Do the amas have a sharp keel line? Something that will function to prevent leeway on its own, unlike the round hulls on the Surtees boat. Actually the second picture is very interesting, no daggerboard, most of the leeward rudder raised. They must be well balanced for that point of sail and the sharp keel line must be doing a good job, don't you think?

Do you have a picture from above? I was trying to see what function the pod serves. Looks like besides housing the daggerboard it might support the jib tack, sort of like day sailing cats with the big long "bowsprit" (not sure thats the proper term). Certainly has no cabin function. It does look like it would be narrow enough not to pound, if it ever got close enough to the water to get wet.

Actually looking at the two, I don't know what you were suggesting is the comparable features, except that there is a centerline something on both.

Just what were you trying to show?

Great pictures of Hydroptere, thanks.

Marc

[bljones]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Look at the picture in the water-there is lots of clearance for loading.

Looks like it's damn near in the water in this shot:


Not that there's anything wrong with that, if that is how it is designed, but if so, it's no longer a cat, is it?

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by upchurchmr

Doug,

Probably all boats look really good (floating high) with no rigging, no equipment, and no people.

I wonder how deep the daggerboard is on Hydroptere? Actually looking at the second picture the dagger looks quite long. Do the amas have a sharp keel line? Something that will function to prevent leeway on its own, unlike the round hulls on the Surtees boat. Actually the second picture is very interesting, no daggerboard, most of the leeward rudder raised. They must be well balanced for that point of sail and the sharp keel line must be doing a good job, don't you think?

Do you have a picture from above? I was trying to see what function the pod serves. Looks like besides housing the daggerboard it might support the jib tack, sort of like day sailing cats with the big long "bowsprit" (not sure thats the proper term). Certainly has no cabin function. It does look like it would be narrow enough not to pound, if it ever got close enough to the water to get wet.

Actually looking at the two, I don't know what you were suggesting is the comparable features, except that there is a centerline something on both.

Just what were you trying to show?Great pictures of Hydroptere, thanks.

Marc

------------------
Marc, just that Hydroptere.ch* uses a center means of lateral resistance(when in the non foiling mode) mounted in a center nacelle like Surtees does.

Note: the boat wasn't hydoptere-it is a smaller test boat for use in designing the 100' Hydroptere Maxi. The test boat has three modes of sailing:
1) on its hulls in very light air,
2) using variable geometry forward sections to create a stepped planing hull and,
3) foiling using surface piercing main foils and dual fully submerged rudder foils.

[upchurchmr]

Doug,

They both certainly have a board in the middle. Normally there would have been some point made after that. Was this a justification for the Surtees boat?

You could have pulled up a picture of an original Stilleto 23 which also had a centerline board.

Thanks for the lecture on the Hydroptere.ch*. I do know what the record holding Hydroptere looks like, but that doesn't have anything to do with the Surtees boat, does it?

bijones, I think it still is a cat, it just has a strange addition. The question to me is if the "addition" is useful or viable. There are other pod cats (Gougeon's) and have been others previously (Peter Hogg, if I remember right).

Hopefully we will see a real sailing report, with some independent reporting from a range of conditions.

Marc

[waikikin]

Originally Posted by upchurchmr

Talk about low bridgedeck clearance - this should pound in any sea, or ripple.If the angled panels of the center pod were intersecting the hulls, they might be termed a champher panel..........................
I like the special hull design which will ride up over things in the water - I wonder how many other boats are nearly identical? Lots.Lots, maybe not on a percentage basis of all vessels

Please someone tell me why is this interesting.

I don't ever want to trailer something with two large wind catching devices with no real support for the middle "pod" when on the trailer. At least with a flat bottomed center hull there is some resistance to the boat being turned over while on the trailer. Of course, with such wind catching hulls that high up there is the question - "will the trailer with the boat turn over"?Have you looked at the pics? The center element appears to sit on two flat bunks at the maximum width/beam area. I've been involved with a performance tri with a higher(from road) float mounting that was campained up & down the East coasst that never had an issue.

How do you get from the cockpit to anywhere else? Hop over the cockpit railing? Looks like a tiny cockpit, and a great way to fall overboard. If you had a saftey harness, how would you get back up? That problem is not unique to this boat, it just looks worse.Apparently these are first launch pics, there may be nets/tramps to come.

How much of the centerboard will still be in the water when the boat heels? First off it will ventilate since it is penetrates the water with no hull above it (in the water). Then its not very deep.Looks like a nice way to simplify the centerboard arrangment & leave the hulls unencumbered with extra stuff & weight.

Nice paint job though. Yes.

Tell me again what there is to like? Actually I figured it out. The two outer hulls have a nice shape which could be converted into a conventional cat with relatively minimal issues - maybe.

!

I like the pod cat, looks like a very neat execution that addresses a lot of the usual issues with a tralerable cat with accomodation, I say well done & TALLY HO! to a great style of vessel to Les, all the best & regards from Jeff.

[upchurchmr]

Waikikilin,
Can you supply pictures of the tri with high amas (trailering)? What was the design?
I don't doubt it will work most of the time. I just had a really bad time once with a Tornado cat (10' beam trailered at a 45degree angle) and don't want to be caught in the same position again. One of the reasons why I haven't built a Cross 18 or a Chris White 23'.

Marc