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  #106  
Old 03-09-2013, 07:05 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is online now
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It sure seems like it's time for an under 20' tri that can beat beach cats and do so with the crew(single or doublehanded) very comfortable-no running across an 8' tramp, don't ya think? I mean ,it's the 21st century......
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  #107  
Old 03-10-2013, 02:25 PM
CutOnce CutOnce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
It sure seems like it's time for an under 20' tri that can beat beach cats and do so with the crew(single or doublehanded) very comfortable-no running across an 8' tramp, don't ya think? I mean ,it's the 21st century......
Absolutely it is time. On that we can agree. I'd love one.

Wing sail, all-carbon clear coated foam cored resin-infused autoclaved construction, a frosting of oddly-shaped foils and an electronic quad core Android Spithill module handling string pulling and aerodynamic decision making. Jetson-style instant folding for trailering, retractable foils for beach launch, two pound one ounce carbon Barcalounger custom fit to the owner and square-topped, carbon/Kevlar laminate blade jib. On board combo GPS/GoPro/Narcissism logger posting via LTE/4G actual performance real-time to Twitter, Facebook and Youtube. AC6.2. Outspending to outperform. Did I miss anything?

On the other hand, really careful choices made could probably achieve 80% or more of the performance the above described tri with 5-10% of the budget, provided someone is willing to spend six months to a year working in their spare time, and be able to move across the boat. Think more Gary Baigent and less Larry Ellison.

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  #108  
Old 03-10-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutOnce View Post
Absolutely it is time. On that we can agree. I'd love one.

Wing sail, all-carbon clear coated foam cored resin-infused autoclaved construction, a frosting of oddly-shaped foils and an electronic quad core Android Spithill module handling string pulling and aerodynamic decision making. Jetson-style instant folding for trailering, retractable foils for beach launch, two pound one ounce carbon Barcalounger custom fit to the owner and square-topped, carbon/Kevlar laminate blade jib. On board combo GPS/GoPro/Narcissism logger posting via LTE/4G actual performance real-time to Twitter, Facebook and Youtube. AC6.2. Outspending to outperform. Did I miss anything?

On the other hand, really careful choices made could probably achieve 80% or more of the performance the above described tri with 5-10% of the budget, provided someone is willing to spend six months to a year working in their spare time, and be able to move across the boat. Think more Gary Baigent and less Larry Ellison.--
CutOnce
==================
I'd prefer Gary Baigent financed by Larry Ellison with a little MPX in the mix....
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  #109  
Old 03-10-2013, 06:23 PM
redreuben redreuben is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CutOnce View Post
Absolutely it is time. On that we can agree. I'd love one.

Wing sail, all-carbon clear coated foam cored resin-infused autoclaved construction, a frosting of oddly-shaped foils and an electronic quad core Android Spithill module handling string pulling and aerodynamic decision making. Jetson-style instant folding for trailering, retractable foils for beach launch, two pound one ounce carbon Barcalounger custom fit to the owner and square-topped, carbon/Kevlar laminate blade jib. On board combo GPS/GoPro/Narcissism logger posting via LTE/4G actual performance real-time to Twitter, Facebook and Youtube. AC6.2. Outspending to outperform. Did I miss anything?

On the other hand, really careful choices made could probably achieve 80% or more of the performance the above described tri with 5-10% of the budget, provided someone is willing to spend six months to a year working in their spare time, and be able to move across the boat. Think more Gary Baigent and less Larry Ellison.

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Can I have the apple version? Since money isn't an issue.
I prefer original, and I don't want to have to reboot after every jibe.
Might need to load Google charts though !
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  #110  
Old 03-10-2013, 06:43 PM
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Corley Corley is offline
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Off the beach trimarans dont have to be ridiculously expensive to be competitive with beach cats. The Ultralight 20 is under 15k US weighs in at 220 lbs (100kgs) in standard form and 175 lbs (80kgs) in R form. A pretty cool option for the performance beach trimaran market.

http://www.warrenlightcraft.com/specsul20ds.html
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  #111  
Old 03-10-2013, 07:23 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is online now
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Originally Posted by Corley View Post
Off the beach trimarans dont have to be ridiculously expensive to be competitive with beach cats. The Ultralight 20 is under 15k US weighs in at 220 lbs (100kgs) in standard form and 175 lbs (80kgs) in R form. A pretty cool option for the performance beach trimaran market.

http://www.warrenlightcraft.com/specsul20ds.html
=============
Do you think it would beat a race ready F18 around a course?
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  #112  
Old 03-10-2013, 07:41 PM
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Not sure but probably yes in "R" form with the larger rig and the tri being singlehanded. The base platform weight on the UL20 is lower than an F18 which is what 180kg's minimum platform weight plus two crew? Conditions would play a role too but I think I've sailed more light air races over the year than heavy and there the UL20 should on average be faster. Not sure about seastate either if more of a short chop kicks up the cat may do better but then if the UL20 flys its main hull above the chop might not be an issue, hard to say.
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Last edited by Corley : 03-12-2013 at 04:37 PM.
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  #113  
Old 03-10-2013, 07:44 PM
P Flados P Flados is offline
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FYI,

Just looked over the video of the 2013 Everglades Challenge pre-race lineup.

Lots of monos and 3 hull boats, just a few cats.

Three cats in the top 10. Jollyroger was the only three hull boat in the top 10, and it raced as Class 3 'Sailing Kayaks and Canoes'


danceswithsandybottom and SOS Class 4, Double Male
Coresound 20 2 Days, 0 Hours, 2 Min

sambasailor and sailsalot Class 4, Double Male
Coresound 17 2 Days, 7 Hours, 34 Min

iszatarock Class 5, Single Male
Mystere 4.3 catamaran 2 Days, 10 Hours, 13 Min

CrazyLugan and Heathen Hobie C, Double Male
Hobie 16 2 Days, 11 Hours, 22 Min

jollyroger Class 3,
Self built decked wooden expedition canoe. 19' x 38" and 235 lbs. Displacement 800 lbs. folding aka's watertribe ama's. carbon mast and sail. mirage drive.
2 Days, 16 Hours, 7 Min

Jarhead Class 4, Single Male
SeaPearl 21 2 Days, 23 Hours, 45 Min

justanothersailor Hobie C, Single Male
(Hobie 18 Magnum) 3 Days, 1 Hours, 26 Min

excitableboy and runswithbeer Class 4, Double Male
Sea Pearl 3 Days, 15 Hours, 1 Min

ironbob and TheJuice Class 2, Double Male
3 Days, 16 Hours, 36 Min

KayakVagabond Class 2, Single Male
3 Days, 19 Hours, 10 Min

Class 1 - Expedition Kayaks and Canoes
Class 2 - Racing Kayaks, Canoes, Rowing Shells
Class 3 - Sailing Kayaks and Canoes
Class 4 - Small Sailboats - monohulls
Class 5 - Small Sailboats - cats, tris
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  #114  
Old 03-10-2013, 09:13 PM
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Richard Woods Richard Woods is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corley View Post
Not sure but probably yes in "R" form with the larger rig and the tri being singlehanded. The base platform weight on the UL20 is lower than an F18 which is what 180kg's minimum platform weight with two crew? Conditions would play a role too but I think I've sailed more light air races over the year than heavy and there the UL20 should on average be faster. Not sure about seastate either if more of a short chop kicks up the cat may do better but then if the UL20 flys its main hull above the chop might not be an issue, hard to say.
I agree with Corley. The standard boat rig is quite small, and the freeboard looks very low, so in a chop there will be a lot of drag from beams, tramp etc. But of course low freeboard is light. And I assume the sails on the racing rig will look better than the ones in the video

Let's hope someone soon races one against a F18 to find out for sure which is the faster

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

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  #115  
Old 03-10-2013, 09:14 PM
CutOnce CutOnce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redreuben View Post
Can I have the apple version? Since money isn't an issue.
I prefer original, and I don't want to have to reboot after every jibe.
Might need to load Google charts though !
Glad you didn't choose Windows. They blue screened the USS Yorktown.. I'm a Unix guy, but use Macs for desktop clients. Both Macs and Android are Unix under the hood.

I've looked hard at tha Warren UL20 -it appears to be a little too beach cat in it's accommodations. But it is really close.

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  #116  
Old 03-12-2013, 04:33 PM
Ilan Voyager Ilan Voyager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corley View Post
Off the beach trimarans dont have to be ridiculously expensive to be competitive with beach cats. The Ultralight 20 is under 15k US weighs in at 220 lbs (100kgs) in standard form and 175 lbs (80kgs) in R form. A pretty cool option for the performance beach trimaran market.

http://www.warrenlightcraft.com/specsul20ds.html
Looks rather nice, but the beams are truly too low and will drag horribly in any wind above 8-10 knots. At the announced weights, I have some doubts about general strength, a 220-240 pounds for the racer version in carbon, and 280-300 pounds for the normal version would not bother me, as a fragile and unreliable boat is truly annoying...A bit more material would not detract the perfs. The designer has minimized surfaces (with the option of low freeboard and thus volumes that have their consequences, ie lack of power). The boat looks very specialized for light winds. The hardware seems also very small, sheeting the main sail with 15 knots of wind will need very strong arms. The mainsail in the video of You Tube is not astounding.
As it is, I do not see myself making a regatta in a 20 knots wind and a good shop as we were used in French Brittany.

But it's easier to criticize than to make, so I like the effort. I hope they have good success and I wish to be totally mistaken in my opinion about this boat
.
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  #117  
Old 03-12-2013, 04:53 PM
Ilan Voyager Ilan Voyager is offline
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Originally Posted by CutOnce View Post
Glad you didn't choose Windows. They blue screened the USS Yorktown.. I'm a Unix guy, but use Macs for desktop clients. Both Macs and Android are Unix under the hood.

I've looked hard at tha Warren UL20 -it appears to be a little too beach cat in it's accommodations. But it is really close.

--
CutOnce

(sent from my iPad)
I'm definitely Unix and thus Linux. I saw too many problems and issues with Windows, with the subsequent loss of time. The French navy and all the French administrations uses Unix and derivatives since ages for reliability.

I imagine a blue screen during an exchange of missiles...or an engine shutdown while 2 torpedoes are running to your ***. The total nightmare.
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  #118  
Old 03-12-2013, 05:53 PM
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Corley Corley is offline
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Originally Posted by Ilan Voyager View Post
Looks rather nice, but the beams are truly too low and will drag horribly in any wind above 8-10 knots. At the announced weights, I have some doubts about general strength, a 220-240 pounds for the racer version in carbon, and 280-300 pounds for the normal version would not bother me, as a fragile and unreliable boat is truly annoying...A bit more material would not detract the perfs. The designer has minimized surfaces (with the option of low freeboard and thus volumes that have their consequences, ie lack of power). The boat looks very specialized for light winds. The hardware seems also very small, sheeting the main sail with 15 knots of wind will need very strong arms. The mainsail in the video of You Tube is not astounding.
As it is, I do not see myself making a regatta in a 20 knots wind and a good shop as we were used in French Brittany.

But it's easier to criticize than to make, so I like the effort. I hope they have good success and I wish to be totally mistaken in my opinion about this boat
.
I'd like to see an "r" version sailing before I drew too many conclusions the basic boat is intended to be an entry level craft and that means some corners have to be cut in terms of gear and sails. I'd like to see a bit more freeboard too but as Ted Warren notes in the thread over here you pay a high price in windage for it Ted Warren new Ultralight 20 trimaran . A lot would depend on your venue for sailing if you have steady winds a heavier craft might be fine but if you are cursed with light and fluky winds 75% of the time (like us in Westernport Bay) a boat that does well in the light would be a great option.
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  #119  
Old 03-12-2013, 06:27 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corley View Post
I'd like to see an "r" version sailing before I drew too many conclusions the basic boat is intended to be an entry level craft and that means some corners have to be cut in terms of gear and sails. I'd like to see a bit more freeboard too but as Ted Warren notes in the thread over here you pay a high price in windage for it Ted Warren new Ultralight 20 trimaran . A lot would depend on your venue for sailing if you have steady winds a heavier craft might be fine but if you are cursed with light and fluky winds 75% of the time (like us in Westernport Bay) a boat that does well in the light would be a great option.
==============
The boat can also be ordered with ama foils which would help when flying the main hull-which it is designed to do ,as I understand it.
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  #120  
Old 03-13-2013, 05:10 AM
Ilan Voyager Ilan Voyager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corley View Post
I'd like to see an "r" version sailing before I drew too many conclusions the basic boat is intended to be an entry level craft and that means some corners have to be cut in terms of gear and sails. I'd like to see a bit more freeboard too but as Ted Warren notes in the thread over here you pay a high price in windage for it Ted Warren new Ultralight 20 trimaran . A lot would depend on your venue for sailing if you have steady winds a heavier craft might be fine but if you are cursed with light and fluky winds 75% of the time (like us in Westernport Bay) a boat that does well in the light would be a great option.
Visibly the tri was designed for the light weather prevalent in the States, and that's normal as the USA is the first and main market. The windage argument leaves me a bit skeptic...at those speeds of wind and boat the incidence is minimal, but the cost of building is by square foot...If it was truly intended to fly the main hull all time, it would have rudders and boards on the amas and the privce would be higher. At 15000 USD the basic version is a deal! and most of the sailors won't seek to fly on one hull.

This tri will be probably useless in zones with mean winds rather strong as the Channel and North Sea in West Europe with the according sea state. It's common to race with more than 20-25 knots, and nobody thinks of canceling the regatta. At 20 knots of wind and good waves, sailing this tri must a nice exercise of survival, with its low arms hitting the water. It's not a defect of design as this tri is targeted for low cost and light weather on flat waters. But I see it very well on Lake Geneva with a big spinnaker...

Without talking of reliability, if the announced weights are true the scantlings must be truly very, very-very just in strong winds and seas. The light Class A are not known for their reliability in strong winds nor its resistance to denting the hulls...

Should be very interesting to see it with small foils.
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