Sea Cart 26

Doug - I suggest you go an do more reading and reconsider what you're saying there.

 

Please change the title of this thread to something more appropriate, like "Let`s gang up on Doug".. Since it is no longer about the Seacart 26.
Maybe Doug does lift content directly from the SA forums - excellent, as I don`t follow these, so I can read about it here. I can`t view pics on these since I`m not registered there, and don`t wish to be, so at least I can see some of it here. Maybe there are a few more like me.
Now, if this thread IS about the Seacart 26, I`m not convinced I like having to have a 300hp chase boat around all the time, maybe a better solution for capsize recovery wouldn`t be a bad idea.

 

Steve,

Your comments are generally apropo to the thread and I enjoy reading your contributions.

However

What you fail to acknowledge in your post is that Doug, himself, is responsible for much of the mud slinging. It was he who opened the thread to an off-topic journey here regarding his ill-fated MPX-11 and since he started this thread, it then set the tone that he wished to bring that nonsense onto this stage. So be it. Why should anyone else follow some measure of forum decorum as to thread drift, when Doug can't even do that on his own topics?

Now, if you had dropped a stone on Doug for his part in the contentiousness, there'd be nothing for me to say, as it would have kept things in balance, quite nicely.

As to whatever righting system for the SeaCart26; The business of flipping one goes with the territory. One should have some means of getting it back over should that happen, but since it is a coastal racer and not meant for offshore events, I can't see there being a hassle any more than there would be for say, a Farrier/Corsair design (which also do not self right, or even have a method for doing so in a churned seaway without assistance) In short, you pay your $100K and you take your chances, which is about what you get in any sport where you're tossing major cash at your race vehicle.

I don't think that masthead airbags on boats that size are a good thing. They can put excessive loading on the mast, likely leading to a failure and then you do have one very big bill to pay in order to get back on the water; and you still may not have your boat righted. Better to let it quietly turtle, get help from another boat and call it a day.

 

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Most designers use units of weight for all their calculations. I don't use kilograms just pounds. In Larrson and Eliasson "mass" is only referred to in the calculation of "Mass Moments of Inertia" using the weights of various objects and their distance from the center of gravity. Pierre Gutelle refers to "mass" in reference to those same calculations. Those calculations are almost never done in boats under 20' but can be important in larger boats for understanding behaviour in waves.
"Mass" as a design term in small high performance boats seems generally redundent-"weight" (massX acceleration of gravity) and the units of weight are used exclusively, at least by me and every other small boat designer I've had the pleasure to meet, in the design of small high performance boats. Righting moment, pitching moment, heeling moment, lift, buoyancy, are all defined in units of "weight"( mass X acceleration of gravity). And it is these relationships, and terms, that most accurately define a small boats' performance-particularly, small unballasted sailboats in addition to the commonly accepted comparative ratios-none of which reference "mass".

 

I'm sure Chris Ostlinds mate Chuckie will pop up soon.

 

What, monocat, not a single contribution regarding self-righting, or ease of righting, of multihulls?

I'm disappointed. I would have thought that you would have had something, shall we say, more substantive?

 

Doug - do you fail to see the irony that you have used the term mass to define your preferred term of weight?

You can continue to dig this hole for yourself if you wish but it seems like a pretty pointless exercise that just takes this thread further from the original title.

 

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Just wanted to make clear that using "mass" as a synonym for "weight" is wrong.

 

No, I think you thought you'd identified an opportunity to point score and have since had to re-brand because you were wrong.

In any case are you suggesting that I have somehow made this mistake by using the term mass to describe an issue with your design? Of the two constituents of the formula you have quoted for weight one is mass, the other is acceleration due to gravity. The latter is effectively a constant (though perhaps you expect it to change for your designs?) so if a vessel is overweight then it is also over mass. I expect that "most dinghy designers", if presented with the term, would understand its meaning and get on with the process of design instead of trying to make a song and dance about it.

I think all you've made clear is that your knowledge of physics extends to what you can google at the time and that you've made a particularly ill considered attempt to ridicule on this forum.

 

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"over mass" ??! Is that Muntarian physics? It is not true that I made an "attempt to ridicule" in any previous post. No such effort on my part has been required.

 

Well said cardsinplay.

Interestingly I get the impression that the calculations/specifications for the trimaran have become so convoluted over God knows how many posts, that maybe its time for Mr Lord to delete everything and write a summary of the proposal as it stands, so that those of us who have a passing interest in the proposal might be able to understand where it's all currently at.

It would be a lot less confrontational if the large red fonts could dropped. It smacks of 'you are a ******** - listen when I'm speaking'

I've always thought this forum was excellent for well judged input from a large number of well informed professionals and those with vast amounts of practical experience, however it appears to me that Mr Lord does have issues with a significant number of these people that has an opinion that he doesn't agree with. So I ask this Mr Lord if you do have issues with input from others, why do you bother to spend probably hundreds of hours each month articulating your every thought on this forum? Maybe it might be time to take a step back get the whole thing designed and built and come back with 'how bloody good is this'?

Tony
p.s. why were you dropped from the Sailing Anarchy forum Mr Lord?

 

Just when I clicked on page 2 for some Seacart discussion. EPIC FAIL!

 

Sc26

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There is an excellent thread on SA with participation by some of the SC26 company personnel: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=114946&pid=3408934&st=200&#entry3408934

 

Cummon Guys.
Cut out all this non productive mud slinging and get back to discussing the topic. Sea Cart 26.

 

Good point from an old sailor! Check out my video from last week!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFBKOvXFH1k

Seams pretty nice to me..