No Interest in the AC?

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by Zed

Now IMO its destroyed and will never really recover, this is an expensive joke.... we can discuss that prediction in a decade or so.

I bet we can functionally discuss this issue within a matter of a couple of years. Unless the incident involves behaviors such as exhibited by mass murderers, Jeffrey Daumer, or Ted Bundy, the public has an on-going love affair with the resurrection of fallen stars and events.

Nothing is destroyed unless they who have control destroy it permanently. It's my opinion that what we are experiencing is but another expression in a long line of momentum style expressions. It's way too early to start selling caskets with little AC emblems on them.

I have found that when someone says something is ruined, what they are really talking about is their own expectations.

[Boston]

on that we can agree Chris

all is not lost
the race will go on and the organizers will continue to have both good and bad years

frankly Im looking forward to tomorrow and see that at least for something as simple as a race there is always another day

cheers
B

[Zed]

We will see... and yes of course we all talk our own book... even you. It just depends how many people end up making the same conclusion. For now its a spectacle, that will buy some time but boredom will set in soon enough and dollars will run short when it does. Like I said, a decade or so...

[powerabout]

Chris O
What you say is correct but my specific question and whole line of the conversation was with the outright speed where as I asked you there appears to be no rules as there is no class and hence if that is true and there was some glory the billionaires would be playing here but they are not.

Of course there is a class for every yacht in a class multipled by a person in every country and multiplied by all the silly A to B races..hundreds of records..
worse than Bonneville

I dont believe hydroptere was built to any rules?
what a great machine

[jehardiman]

Originally Posted by jehardiman

My take is that the race will not even be as close as the NZ mono/ Stars & Stripes cat matchup....


one of them is going to break.

I was wrong, no one broke...but then again, as was pointed out in sailing anarchy I believe, that they were hesitant to race in winds we send our kids out to race el Toro's in....

Good job to both design teams, especially the to BMW-O for the wingsail.

Summer in the Gulf of the Farallones is going to be really different...

So, who is the next challanger?

[Boston]

not sure but that was a pretty nice last race
little back and forth and then the sprint to the finish

lets just hope they alter there methodology next time around and make the race a bit more about the sailing and a bit less about the courtroom

cheers
B

[jehardiman]

The bottle on the right is a 1995 Domaine Chandon Commemorative Cuvée for America^3. It was given to my wife for some help she gave to the team on IACC USA-43 "Mighty Mary"'s keel welding. My wife is a materials engineer and through a 'friend of a friend' type of thing amoung the women in Naval Architecture network looked at some welding issues they were having. Everyone (all women) thought it was neat that the expert they wanted and got was a woman also.

We've been saving it for the right time.

"domination of the event by the US did end with Australia II and has never been reestablished" -Who?

[Boston]

exactly

check out this thread Mark
might enlighten you some as to the happenings back in 83

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sai...-new-post.html

[capt vimes]

to me the whole AC this year seemed to be nothing but a very bad joke...

billions of dollars have been spend on 2 multihulls, years of desinging and testing... not to mention all the lawyers fighting out the rules and interpretation...
and for what?
2 races in a buff of wind on a flat sea because those billion dollar designs cannot sail in even a bft 3 breeze?
didn't the last AC at least went for a best of 7 series? why only a best of 3 today?

a very bad joke especially keeping in mind that these ships will probably never sail again...
what a farking waste of money!

[bad dog]

Capt Vimes you are probably right about these beautiful monsters never sailing again... let's make an absurd offer for each, do some more racing for fun!

Seriously - what future for these two boats now? I would like to see Alinghi with a BOR's wing rig - but who would pay for that now?

[souljour2000]

America's Cup has been a sad boring joke for a while now...at least for us commoners...I'd rather follow the daily escapades of a recent bag-boy competition between national supermarket bag-boys/girls I heard about in the newspaper......maybe the rich folks will come to their senses and return to a real gentleman's race some day ....I suppose it's possible...

[Boston]

I agree there is a lot of work to do in order to bring the race back to its lost glory

and I'm sure the organizers will want to do that given how little money they made this time around

but its not likely to happen all at once and its not likely to be a perfect fix next time around or even the one after that, its going to take time.

lets just hope the next race is a bit better than this years

I'd also put in a note for Australia doing the right thing concerning the 83 race, but not to be diverging from this thread topic I'd just suggest all interested skip to http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sai...-new-post.html and read posts 79 81 82 86 98 concerning the recently come to light cheating involved in that win.

certainly the comity for the next race has some soul searching to do

B

[sailor2]

Originally Posted by bad dog

Capt Vimes you are probably right about these beautiful monsters never sailing again... let's make an absurd offer for each, do some more racing for fun!

Seriously - what future for these two boats now? I would like to see Alinghi with a BOR's wing rig - but who would pay for that now?

What could happen and what will happen are propably totally different things.

I think The trimaran could be used to make a record in a new category, Max upwind_VMG for any sailboat on the water in a liquid form.

Such category might not exist yet, but there is no reason why it couldn't exist. But if they don't even ask,
we'll never know what it would be capable of. My best guess is still 20+ knots upwind VMG. Meaning 50% faster than what it accheaved in friday in light conditions.

I don't think there are currently any other boats, that could offer any hard competition for that tri in such a category for records.

For max speed records, I think it's potential as it is, is just not fast enough, but could be modified for the task, if BMWO wanted to do so.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by Boston

Mr Hough

I have clearly stated why the sail on your own bottom rule was made and apparently you missed it

please feel free to go back and read the information presented then maybe get back to us once your up to date

cheers
B

Here is what you posted:

Quote:
(The issue of challengers having to build heavier boats due to the ocean crossing was a popular, if uncertain, explanation in the British press for the long string of American victories. In practice, a number of challengers added internal bracing for the crossing, which was then removed before racing. And on a few occasions defenders subsequently made the crossing in reverse in search of competition following their successful defense. The rule requiring that the challenger sail to the event on her own bottom was actually instituted in response to a super-lightweight challenger towed to the match through canals and rivers from Canada. )

and thats just one aspect of the rules being slanted in favor of a home team that could just sail out of harbor on race day, spin around a few buoys and head back in

The two do not support each other.

The on her own bottom rule did not as you state "favor the home team that could just sail out of harbor ..."

In the interest of having fairer racing the NYYC actually helped bring the Canadian boats up to speed. That was not self serving in the least.

The rule that was intended to insure that challengers were fit to race on open water, got abused and contrary to the intent became an advantage to NYYC.

History shows us that when NYYC saw that they had too much advantage, they agreed to terms that kept the Cup alive. They knew that if there was no challenge, holding the Cup was less significant. The J's and the agreement to A-1 scantlings are evidence of NYYC wanting to make the races fair.

Again, after WWII the NYYC went so far as to request an amendment to the Deed to lower the bar so a challenge would be made.

None of these actions support the idea that NYYC systematically changed the rules to give themselves greater advantage. The opposite is the case. The NYYC valued intense and fair competition to the point that they lost the Cup.

If NYYC was as black as some people want to paint them, they would have refused to continue racing in 12's in 1970 or so. They would have raised the bar again so that only the biggest and best could win the Cup.

What we saw in AC33 was a return to the core values of an elite competition. The best boat won. I don't think that swapping crews would have changed the result (although Ernesto showed the difference between an amateur and a professional driver). The winner would be the same. USA-17

The AC was intended to be about the best boat, not to provide good racing and entertainment for the great unwashed, or as a showcase for sailing skill.

The AC is about design and construction. This does not tend to produce "good racing" or close finishes as even a cursory review of results will show.

For all of those that mourn the passing of world-wide coverage and attention to the 12M world championship, I think they still have one. So you can still enjoy the racing that is NOT the AC. Allow those with means to continue to race for the Cup on terms that they find agreeable or under the default terms if they cannot agree. That is the AC.

Randy