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  #46  
Old 03-17-2016, 09:20 PM
CT249 CT249 is offline
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Oh, of course one can disagree. It's just that when one person has enormous experience in an area such as high performance cats (including creating one that was the fastest of them all) and the other person's experience includes a single sail on a high performance cat and that person shows no evidence of doing research on the question, then disagreements can seem to move into a different realm.

When people with such vast levels of experience differ, it could seem to be better for one to just open up and learn from the other. But YMMV.

Oh, and they were a Prowler and Laser.
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  #47  
Old 03-17-2016, 09:33 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
I've sailed Hobies and a Tornado once-no foiler cats yet. But I have a couple hundred hours sailing a Rave foiler -using wand controlled foils.
May we ask how often you have sailed wand basedMULTIHULL foilers?
=============
Way to go on the answer to my question-I didn't add in the "multihull" part!!! Funny.
And you ignore my multihull foiler experience-par for the course with you......
There's a huge difference between a monofoiler using a wand for altitude control and a multihull foiler using dual,independent main foil wands. The monofoiler wand controls altitude,the dual multifoiler wands control altitude and righting moment. But you knew that......
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  #48  
Old 03-18-2016, 01:05 AM
CT249 CT249 is offline
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I answered the question you asked, it's not my fault you asked the wrong question. Nor did I ignore your foiling multihull experience - it's just that falling overboard is not a known risk factor in a sit-in boat like a Rave, as it is in a high performance cat. The difference between a wand mono and wand cat is so obvious that it goes without comment.

The point is that if we're lucky enough to be able to get information from world champions here, maybe we should concentrate more on learning from them instead of just saying that they are wrong,
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  #49  
Old 03-18-2016, 08:52 AM
waynemarlow waynemarlow is offline
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Steve is right, whether the boat is on its feet or on its side, you only have to be thrown 2 metres from the boat and its doubtful you will be able to swim fast enough to get back to the boat. Hang on to the tiller bar as you enevitably seem to do and you end up breaking the stick, about the only positive way seems to be clipped into the trapeze at all times and take the wash when you hit the water.

I've started to put a piece of 3mm cord down the centre of the tiller bar with a knot at either end, the last time I was dispatched off the A was a broken trapeze fitting, odd failure but I ended up in the water hanging onto the tiller bar, it broke before I could recover back to the boat and ended up being rescued by a safety boat. If I had had that cord in the tiller, even though it was broken I would still have got back to the boat.
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  #50  
Old 03-18-2016, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT249 View Post
I answered the question you asked, it's not my fault you asked the wrong question. Nor did I ignore your foiling multihull experience - it's just that falling overboard is not a known risk factor in a sit-in boat like a Rave, as it is in a high performance cat. The difference between a wand mono and wand cat is so obvious that it goes without comment.

The point is that if we're lucky enough to be able to get information from world champions here, maybe we should concentrate more on learning from them instead of just saying that they are wrong,
===================
I don't think anyone should be be intimidated into not asking questions or expressing their opinion-no matter who the visiting celebrity is.
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  #51  
Old 03-18-2016, 09:35 AM
Skyak Skyak is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve Clark View Post
Under the conditions in the video, the A cat does almost exactly what the Stunt does.
It doesn't foil, or at least I don't think it does.I haven't lost mine in several years, certainly not since the foils got good enough to fly.
So I don't really know if the A cat would foil away or just sail away as it always does.
It really doesn't matter because you are screwed the second the thing gets out of reach. I repeat, if it is upright or on it's side it blows away from you faster than you can swim. If it sails for 5 yards or 5 miles is irrelevant to your chances of living until cocktails.
If you want to make some bold statement about wand controlled foils on the basis of this video, I think you ( as my father used to say) are theorizing ahead of your data.
SHC
My first thought on seeing this video was that the boat simply had a dangerous lee helm and that any stable lee helm boat would have the problem. Now I see the problem is bigger and intrinsic to super light high performance boats.

A leash or tether would be too dangerous alone. I am thinking that there is some kind of tether with a special flotation at the user end that would pull them face up -safety without consciousnesses. But it would likely be too cumbersome,complex, and expensive (cost of testing, liability).

The drogue idea sounds promising. Maybe some combination -a tether that deploys the drogue and releases the user 20 seconds after hitting the water unless they signal they want to stay attached. Maybe the drogue alone would do the job if it deployed from the right part of the boat.

This also makes me think about swim speed and how it is impaired by many clothing and PFD designs.
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  #52  
Old 03-18-2016, 11:24 AM
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The best thing never to let go of is the main sheet.
It is strong enough and is sized to be held onto.
The mistake our pilot made in the video was not having the sheet in his hand.
Most sailors do a pretty good job of housekeeping their sheets, so it is least likely to be wrapped up in a way that will drown you.
I also have a spectra link in my trapeze bungee with a hard stop on it at the furthest normal extension. This is nice because the bungee doesn't chafe itself to death where it comes off the platform, but it also limits how far I can get washed away from the hull by a wave or when getting tea bagged.
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  #53  
Old 03-18-2016, 12:20 PM
waynemarlow waynemarlow is offline
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Not sure about the mainsheet, keeping hold of the main is great but being dragged along by the main just tightens the main fully on and just seems to make any chance of getting back on, just that bit harder. One thing for sure, once you over the side, what ever you seem to do, doesn't seem to work.

Like the idea of having a spectra stop in the trapeze.
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  #54  
Old 03-18-2016, 12:52 PM
hump101 hump101 is offline
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I've been washed off regularly - a consequence of sailing in big waves. As Steve notes, the mainsheet is the thing to hang onto. Even with the boat upright and surfing you can hang on during the surfs, and drag yourself back when the forces reduce a little. If the boat is still upright then this is usually because the mainsheet is over the rear beam with the sail sheeted tight, and boat directly downwind, otherwise it will have gone over. Either way you can pull your self back to the boat.

I've lost grip completely a few times, and it is impossible to catch the boat, upright or capsized, so I don't think the S9 foiling away changes anything.
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  #55  
Old 03-18-2016, 02:04 PM
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Nacra 15

From NACRA UK, the new 15' full flying foiler for the 2018 Youth Olympics. Looks like "A Catish" foils-4 in the water----

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  #56  
Old 03-26-2016, 03:03 PM
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Stiletto Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
The Stiletto is(probably) back in both a foiling and non-foiling version:

https://sailstiletto.com/own-a-stiletto-catamaran/

----------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n08R...ature=youtu.be
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  #57  
Old 04-21-2016, 03:31 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Nw55

This is the first large cat to adopt "Z" foils as now used on A Cats. Mainly for skimming, I guess, which makes it marginal to be included here. If it were to foil it would probably require active manual rake control-at least on the windward foil to zero out lift and/or create downforce. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
Seen on catsailingnews: http://www.catsailingnews.com/2016/0...acer.html#more

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  #58  
Old 04-29-2016, 06:39 AM
Tiny Turnip Tiny Turnip is offline
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Holland Composites/DNA 2016 A-Cat F1. Lots of pictures and article here:

http://www.catsailingnews.com/2016/0...-sailboat.html
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  #59  
Old 05-04-2016, 09:48 PM
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A Class DNA F1

[More on the DNA F1 with an interview by Henk de Graad of Mischa Heemskerk.
Found on www.catsailingnews.com NOW(5/5/16) MARKED PRIVATE AND NOT ON CATSAILINGNEWS EITHER!!
UPDATE: 5/6/2016-DNA pulled the video according to Martin on catsailingnews-says he's trying to get them to put it back up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT8uzgnDRN8
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Last edited by Doug Lord : 05-06-2016 at 01:07 PM.
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  #60  
Old 05-05-2016, 09:18 AM
Jim Caldwell Jim Caldwell is offline
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Now marked private!
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