New Adventures! - 1st time building a boat - Quattro 16

[danboyk]

A friend and I have decided to tackle building our first boat and have gone with the Wood Designs Quattro 16! Pretty excited and a bit overwhelmed, but that's the whole reason for doing this. Creating things by your own hands is definitely a dieing art.

A couple of questions for those familiar with this style boat or just in general

1. The sail and mast are custom to the boat design. Any recommendations on where to get sail made but that won't break the bank? Or even used sails/ pre-made sails that would fit this design.

2. We plan to go with Okoume wood for the build. What do you think? Any other quality woods but cheaper? I found a couple of suppliers online, but any recommended suppliers in the Southeast (we are in Mississippi).

Finally, just any words of wisdom would not fall on deaf ears.

Happy sailing!
Danny Klimetz
Oxford, MS USA

[Petros]

That is a great design, looks like fun boat to sail too.

The better quality materials you use (per the designers recommendation) the more durable the hull will be. Cheaper materials will work, and save you money (even buying 1/4" exterior grade AC plywood at HomeDepot will work), but it will not hold up as long over time. I have done it many times since I was doing a quick and cheap build for something to last a few years of summer fun.

The cheapest thing you can do for sails is to make a "test" sail out of poly tarp or even Tyvek or similar "house wrap" material. You can even use duck take to make it. There are lot of web sites that can help you design your own sail, I think there is even some free ware software that will design the curve and camber into each panel for you. I have used both polytarp and Tyvek sails, very cheap.

There are on-line companies that you fill in your rig information, and they will automatically cut you a sail kit, and ship it to you. You sew it yourself. This is probably the next cheapest way, and the lowest cost way to get a decent quality sail. Of course if you have no way to sew it, or your are so unskilled at sewing you will make a mess of it, this might not be such a good choice.

It would be difficult to find the exact sail you need used for that boat, you might be able to adapt Hobie cat sail, there are lots of fleets of Hobie cats that race regularly, and the hot shots always want new sails for their boats. Find the local Hobie Cat club and go to a few races and ask around for used sails, and even masts and rigging too (it will save you a lot of money). The next best place for used sails would be to go to a sail maker and see if they have used that is close enough they can cut down to fit your rig. The sail makers know how to take the sail plan from your plans and convert them into suitable sails, the custom sails are very costly of course, but if they have some old used ones that can be recut and sewn, that would cost less than new ones.

Good luck, and have fun. Post pictures of your progress.

[Marvout]

Good old chunky sewing machines can be had at thrift stores for $25-40. Stop in at some upholstery guy and get some heavier thread. Actually, I'm betting the kit will come with it. Easy way to get some sails. I'm doing the same thing right now, just using SailCut CAD and some poly tarp. I've got 5 sails behind me right now, so I'd be totally comfortable sewing up a real one. In fact, the real one would come pre-cut, so it would be easier. Save me having to cut the panels out.

Marvin

[Doug Lord]

Sailrite kits may be just what you're looking for: http://www.sailrite.com/

Have you asked Mr. Woods what he would suggest?

[Vulkyn]

You might find some helpful links in this thread concerning general knowledge.
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/ope...tml#post382354

Best of luck with your build

Originally Posted by Petros

Cheaper materials will work, and save you money (even buying 1/4" exterior grade AC plywood at HomeDepot will work),

That is wrong, and can be even dangerous "advice" in certain situations!

That cheap stuff has never the structural strength of the marine grade ply, the designer used to calculate the properties of the boat.

One may be one happy bastard to come out with a sufficient result, but one can as well, and more likely, end up with something that disappears under the bum in harsh conditions.

Regards
Richard

[Eralnd44]

mr apex do you know of this design to make such talk? if the guessing is in place it makes sense this answer of yours. can you say you know this design and have the place to talk suc as this? i see petros comment as making sense and you only make the other side with no object to support.

can you support this apex

Originally Posted by Eralnd44

mr apex do you know of this design to make such talk? if the guessing is in place it makes sense this answer of yours. can you say you know this design and have the place to talk suc as this? i see petros comment as making sense and you only make the other side with no object to support.

can you support this apex

No, I do not know this design and I must not. Boatbuilding is boatbuilding no matter the design in question, and I am a boatbuilder.
If it is designed to stand the conditions by using cheap crap, go for it. If it is designed to use a standard grade ply, avoid the cheap and weak stuff. So easy it is...........
Petros comment did make NO sense. It was dangerous.

[Richard Woods]

The Quattro 16 is designed to be built using 4mm (3/16in) gaboon (Okume) WBP plywood.

6mm (1/4in) would be too thick and stiff to bend to the shape, never mind being 50% heavier.

I prefer to use gaboon plywood as it is the lightest with a nice smooth surface (unlike fir plies).

WBP (weather and boil proof) plywood is fine for a boat that basically is not kept in the water (although the Q16 is glass sheathed as well). If I were building a cruising boat designed to be left in the water all year I would suggest building in marine grade plywood.

You only use 6 sheets of ply, so any cost saving using inferior products will be minimal.

Hope that clarifies things

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

Originally Posted by Richard Woods

The Quattro 16 is designed to be built using 4mm (3/16in) gaboon (Okume) WBP plywood.

Hope that clarifies things

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

Bingo.........

[Eralnd44]

This comments from mr. wood is a preference as he says so. Another may take it to a different thinking. After all, mr. apex, it is not the boat of mr, wood once the new man begins to build. something woulld say so that not every boat you have been to builting with other men is made of the best wood from the planet. you can be honest here

i think that it shall be many of the owners have other ideas than to built it from best wood and maybe the money is also a big important thing. some people have probelems for anything if it comes more expensive. the boat builting is this thing also. when i go to the new places in the world i see that people are not rich and they also wish to built the boat of big dreams. most boats are made of not so perfect wood all over tis world. perfect wood building is more about rich countries. i think maybe you are having this in yourr head already, no?

[bearflag]

Originally Posted by Eralnd44

This comments from mr. wood is a preference as he says so. Another may take it to a different thinking. After all, mr. apex, it is not the boat of mr, wood once the new man begins to build. something woulld say so that not every boat you have been to builting with other men is made of the best wood from the planet. you can be honest here

i think that it shall be many of the owners have other ideas than to built it from best wood and maybe the money is also a big important thing. some people have probelems for anything if it comes more expensive. the boat builting is this thing also. when i go to the new places in the world i see that people are not rich and they also wish to built the boat of big dreams. most boats are made of not so perfect wood all over tis world. perfect wood building is more about rich countries. i think maybe you are having this in yourr head already, no?

Some of the best wood (maybe most of the best wood) is to be found in the poorest and most remote countries in the world. The problem is you can't go to the local hardware store and pay for it with a piece of plastic.

You may even need to make your own sawmill before you make your boat!

With that said, there are some tremendous natural materials and craftsmanship in the most unlikely of places. I'm not one to be offering advice, but I think the keys to building anything is good solid engineering, using the materials suited towards the chosen design, and employing the best craftsmanship you can afford (or do it yourself).

With a little creativity, hard work, and some book learning (and maybe a little help with importing epoxy), there is not a reason in the world why you can't build a production (or better) quality boat almost anywhere in the world.

[jamez]

Originally Posted by apex1

That is wrong, and can be even dangerous "advice" in certain situations!

That cheap stuff has never the structural strength of the marine grade ply, the designer used to calculate the properties of the boat.

One may be one happy bastard to come out with a sufficient result, but one can as well, and more likely, end up with something that disappears under the bum in harsh conditions.

Regards
Richard

Apex, it is disingenuous to quote people out of context to make a point.

Petros clearly qualified his statement (even buying 1/4" exterior grade AC plywood at HomeDepot will work), but it will not hold up as long over time. and added I have done it many times since I was doing a quick and cheap build for something to last a few years of summer fun.

Given that a Quattro is unlikely to be moored out you could build it out of any ply you liked. But occume is about the lightest. Build one out of anything else and it will be heavier. And **** ply is horrible to work with. Given the price of second-hand Hobies one is not likely to build a beach cat from scratch to get a cheap boat. Simple answer; stick with the designers recommendation, or if you take another option, do it fully informed and be prepared to wear the consequences (such as they may be).

Go for it DanboyK!

[SoCal Ken]

Have to agree with APEx 1's summation regarding using 1/4" A/C exterior ply in general & on Quattro 16 specifically. Don't know what Petros was building, but by the time you finish almost any boat, cost of the plywood is at most a significant minority of the cost (you additionally have epoxy, paint, FG cloth, rigging, hardware, etc.). Several problems: 1) Anytime you start bending the contruction grade stuff, it will start checking (cracking) and taking on moisture. Doesn't matter wheter you F/G sheath it or not; 2) unless design calls for 6mm ply, the 1/4" stuff will be too heavy & performance will suffer (maybe a lot) - Quattrois designed for 4mm ply & 3) the A/C stuff will only have 3 ply's with plugs on outer ply's and interior voids, so will not bend uniformly & create a "funky looking" boat. All this advice comes from a person who tried to save a few bucks overall and build two CLC kayaks from plans about 15 years ago. Neither boat lasted more than three years and were a complete waste of my time & effort to build, when it was all said & done. Maybe Petros was building the "Six-Hour Canoe" for his project, but even that design performs much better (and is lighter) when constructed from properly dimensioned marine grade ply. That comment is also coming from more than five years experience building that design for a local "solar boat" competition for high schools here in SoCal.

[rayaldridge]

If Richard Woods says you need 4 mm ply to make the bends, then that's what you have to have.

That said, it's possible to find non-marine ply that will do a good and long-lasting job, at least in this country (USA). I built Slider out of a high-quality floor underlayment called Multiply. (This is definitely not the cheap lauan underlayment found in bigbox stores.) Multiply uses high-quality glues and equal laminations. One drawback is that it appears to be birch, which is vulnerable to mildew. However, Slider has no brightwork, as I adhere to the workboat aesthetic. Slider's hulls are now pushing 4 years since they were first put together, and 3 years since launch, most of which was spent afloat in a slip. There have been no issues with the Multiply-- furthermore, Slider's hulls were sheathed only to the waterline-- most of the topsides are protected only by paint. What's worse, Slider is an open boat, and every time it rains, I have to send one of my teenage sons down to the slip to bail her out.

In many places, it isn't the cost of marine ply that is so bad. It's also the cost of freighting small amounts of ply. Taken together, the cost of my new design in marine ply is a good thousand dollars more than the cost in the high-quality underlayment. Since this is a 20 foot boat, that's not a small consideration.

Here's what Slider's first hull looked like: