Multihull Capsize Prevention <split>

[MikeJohns]

Cat Shot, a 44-ft Voyage 440 catamaran was recently capsized off the Oregon coast with all hands lost. The epirb was inside the boat and there were signs that at least someone survived the inversion but died afterwards tied onto the upturned hull, a tether tied around on sail drive had been snapped. The skipper was Richard Anstess. He had sailed the cat from South Africa with Seattle as the destination.

Here's an extract from the court findings:

In regard to Captain Anstess, the Court finds that he had extensive experience as a captain, both with catamarans and other vessels, and had received special training on safety in rough sea waters. The tragic events that underlie this case was a sudden storm off the coast of Oregon-"an Act of God or peril of the sea."

[HASYB]

Thanks Mike, for those extensive tragic reports. What do you think could have prevented those capsizes?

[warwick]

Mike you have put up enough reports to your claims , now what is your solution to the capsizing.

[CatBuilder]

Just like Kurt Hughes told me: "I don't go on that forum because the people there don't know what they are talking about."

Some do, but many don't. Bye bye folks. Enjoy the incorrect assessments from these deck jockeys. It was fun.

Deleting boatdesign.net from my bookmarks and logging out.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Just like Kurt Hughes told me: "I don't go on that forum because the people there don't know what they are talking about."

Errr... Just wondering how come you had to ask questions about your boat building here instead of him

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

. . . Kurt Hughes told me . . . . . . . .

Kurt once came away just lucky in a microburst, a bit less luck would have . . . .

Cheers,
Angel

[Corley]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Just like Kurt Hughes told me: "I don't go on that forum because the people there don't know what they are talking about."

Some do, but many don't. Bye bye folks. Enjoy the incorrect assessments from these deck jockeys. It was fun.

Deleting boatdesign.net from my bookmarks and logging out.

That's a pity because you could contribute a lot to this forum with your experiences with building your boat instead you leave in a petulant manner after milking advice. Good luck with your charter venture but you have gone down a peg in my eyes, farewell.

[warwick]

Is not a case of listening/reading what others have to say, then what what is relevant to learn from. Over time you can work out who can back up their claims and who can not. As well to pass on what knowledge you can or links to possible knowledge.

[HASYB]

Well, assuming that the posts Mike came up with were to learn more how to prevent capsizes; I'll have a go with an unauthorized analysis and personal interpretation of these tragic events, with the knowledge that some of the people involved won't be able to give feedback.
I hope that people with more experience in this matter will jump in, so we can really learn something.

1) When reading the report of the lagoon 38;
I wonder if I would even left the harbor with an forecast like that and with conditions worsening ahead.
they get in a situation where I would have taken all the sails away and get in survival mode: put all the lines you have overboard with buckets or whatever.
They just watch and wait, literally in the text, till the inevitable happens....
And I ask myself what did cause this accident. To me its not the waves or the wind......

2) The write up about the Queequeg 2 a Hugo Myers 43 foot design:
I think there are so few particulars know to even consider put up an analysis for preventing this capsize.

3) the account of Gulliver the Kysna 440:
The report says more than once they were trying to outrun the weather, motor-sailing.
So it was definitely the wind that got this one.
To prevent this capsize I guess: pay better attention to the sudden wind-squalls? release devises for the Sheets? (discussed in threads here and on steam radio)

4) Anna, well known Anna: again squalls, see above. As Mike says; read the report of Chris White.

Well one thing came clear: If you want to survive capsize at sea; be sure to wear or have epirb!

[warwick]

Thanks Hielan. For your objective comments on the reports, in that being constructive rather then being negative.

From what I have read in magazines on capsizes they aim to pass on lessons learnt from the capsize.

3 articles in (Aus) Multihull world Magazine. last one was ex raw nerve , now Edoc Gavin Le sueur issue number 112. The other 2 I cannot remember which issues to find details at present. how ever both were sailed over.

[cavalier mk2]

Originally Posted by MikeJohns

Cat Shot, a 44-ft Voyage 440 catamaran was recently capsized off the Oregon coast with all hands lost. The epirb was inside the boat and there were signs that at least someone survived the inversion but died afterwards tied onto the upturned hull, a tether tied around on sail drive had been snapped. The skipper was Richard Anstess. He had sailed the cat from South Africa with Seattle as the destination.

Here's an extract from the court findings:

In regard to Captain Anstess, the Court finds that he had extensive experience as a captain, both with catamarans and other vessels, and had received special training on safety in rough sea waters. The tragic events that underlie this case was a sudden storm off the coast of Oregon-"an Act of God or peril of the sea."

That was a few years ago...They were advised about the approaching low further down the coast when they came in for charts and the captain thought they would have enough time to get into Juan de Fuca and Puget Sound before it hit. He said if they got in trouble they would try to beach the boat....The conclusion was he underestimated the Oregon/Washington coast.

[Corley]

On the Lagoon 38 it does not sound like they were towing any warps or drogues the end over end capsize can effect any type of boat. The skipper seemed to ignore the warning signs or not be properly equipped to deal with the situation. Another option may have been to lay to a parachute anchor if there was sufficient sea room but it has to deployed before the seastate becomes too dangerous.

[HASYB]

Originally Posted by Corley

On the Lagoon 38 it does not sound like they were towing any warps or drogues the end over end capsize can effect any type of boat. The skipper seemed to ignore the warning signs or not be properly equipped to deal with the situation. Another option may have been to lay to a parachute anchor if there was sufficient sea room but it has to deployed before the seastate becomes too dangerous.

Please read again! it appears to be important in this split thread.
Thanks

[Corley]

Originally Posted by HASYB

Please read again! it appears to be important in this split thread.
Thanks

I agree it was not prudent seamanship to go out in the forecast conditions in the first place. Once however you are in the situation of getting hammered by waves from astern you have to make the best decision based on the current situation. I've read and reread the article provided by Mike Johns and can't find any mention of what they were doing to save themselves and the speed at which they were racing down the waves rings alarm bells by itself.

[MikeJohns]

I don’t think you’ll do much better at analyzing events than the Wolfston 1999 study.
The detailed events are good because you can relate to the fear exhaustion and disability of the poor people on those boats. In heavy weather to even do something simple takes a lot of time effort there is a also a tremendous reduction in intellectual ability. The effects of severe conditions on people is often overlooked. Anyone who’s been in heavy weather in a boat knows how tired and debilitated everyone gets and how sometimes the experienced skipper can end up exhausted standing by the less able on their watches.

Those were experienced cat sailors too. But I wonder how much of the seamanship they adopt is tempered by reading misleading belief in the invulnerability of the craft they are sailing. False senses of security are renown for cat accidents, you intuitively feel safe but don’t fully comprehend the risks.

There are numerous other accounts but I’d need to substantiate them, for example someone just emailed me a report recently of a Russian couple and daughter who had their 45 foot cat flipped when they altered course to enter harbour in Greece in a gale they had sails down and were motoring. Unfortunately She drowned, he and the child were rescued. You can say had they towed a drogue and prevented the cat surging they might have weathered the course change. But shelter is a very seductive place in a gale and the cat was short crewed and deploying a drogue takes a lot of effort, it can also foul your props and rudders which has happened .

Operators manuals including seamanship might be a good idea. It would also pay for designers to understand in detail what’s involved when the sea state gets to “survival conditions” both upright and inverted.