Modernising a Horstman Tri.

[cavalier mk2]

Looks like a model of a ship from the late 1800s. Seriously Gary can this one carry anything more than a lunch box? Sid got downrated as a bucc 24 alternative.....How big does this one have to be to become useful ....remember you're talking about a Tristar 24 alternative now.

[Silver Raven]

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

Relating and referring to what OS7 was saying (negatively and with good reason) about the Horstman, here's an 8 metre cruisy/part racy trimaran main hull, also plan, that I tentatively drew up for a friend. The idea was to have a wide, single beam (a la Newick) to allow larger interior. Floats would be full length, overall beam 6m.

Ooops, Paddy - sorry - yet again - - WAY OFF TOPIC Gawd, sorry - I am!

Gooday bloke. Can I have one - tri - that is - that is about 30' plus a 'lill-bit, lighter, stiffer, wider, faster - to be sailed 2-up (or 3-up in the 'Classic') than - the mighty "T W" machine. So in 3rd or 4th gear it has to do 30 plus - cause in 5th gear - with 3-up - it's gotta do 36 to 40. Tim's already up over 28 kts & there's much more speed left to find in that fine machine.

I'm not sure how wide "T W" is - how much it weighs, or what the total 's/a' is - but I'd sure like to come over there & give him something to - HAVE TO stay in front of. Maybe paint it 'n-pink' to make it contrast with that beaut 'green' - SUPA machine Tim has. Might even call it - - b'genttre - or something.

Don't care a 'hoot' about any rating rule rubbish. There are a few over there that are smart enough (like Malcom & Locki were) to understand - that - on the day - who finishes FIRST is what it's all about - not who rated best - sailed worst - sailed slowest - but had the best handicap - cause he didn't sail for the last 2 monts. Bah-hum-bug ! ! ! !

Every multihull sailor in the world - knows - the faster we go - the more fun we have - it's a 'cardinal rule' & we all just keep smiling - winners are grinners. Ciao all jj Paddy - I really am sorry but - I'm an old decripit fart & just can't help myself. Ciao to you also. james

I'd be happy to co-design a wing-thingy with some 'hp' on steroids. I'm sure there is a formula for 'floats' but I just can seem to visualise it in my minds eye. Needs to be - of course - ultra-light - extra stiff - canted - easily & quickly - rasied & lowered - curved c/b's (prob @ 2* toe) all built in 'pre-stressed' hi mod carbon - blister deck - must carry 150 kgs of electronics, batteries, cooler, fluids & safety gear for at least 3 people (3 fat's @ 260 kgs max) - - It's gotta be able to - pull the apparent around to 38 to 42* to windward in 14 kts apparent static wind.

[Gary Baigent]

Geez, Cav, just a tentative sketch ... and its geared for some performance, not meant to be some waddling, obese pig rooter.
Agreed, Sid morphed into a solo boat (and I apologised) ... but this, to my eyes, voluminous fatty, has a 690mm WL beam and 1.5 metre deck beam - and you're only talking 25 feet or so length. That is gross, my man.
James, absolutely no problem to design a 9-10m foil tri to beat the Green Machine (just joking, Tim).

[Silver Raven]

Originally Posted by cavalier mk2

Looks like a model of a ship from the late 1800s. Seriously Gary can this one carry anything more than a lunch box? Sid got downrated as a bucc 24 alternative.....How big does this one have to be to become useful ....remember you're talking about a Tristar 24 alternative now.

Good - - Sir 'S-T Paddle' - we all hope you are well & that the - "the fleas of a thousand - etc etc" - - & ha ha ha! Seems the 'big-paddles' are well in your area & seem to be growing 'in-the-spring' cause some of the snow melted ???

Lunch box must be made out of 'I-M' carbon - that's 'imaginary' carbon fiber - which as we all know - Gary invented - & weighs - - 4/5th of 5/8ths of s f a (what ever that is) but we all know is -bloody light.

Now for the contents - you're allowed two (2) only - extra light-weight - water waffers & 1/4 ltr of water however - that's for 3 people & MUST last for a full week ! ! ! !

Now for those of U who are handicapped [most of the N W Coast & all of the E Coast) we'll allow y'all 100 micro grams of steroids but that's for 1 month.

Now - me thinks - the joke - might be to close to home here.Personal requirements - at this point in time - just to keep 'dem pumps - pumping';

250 grams/day drugs - minimum

1000 grams/day water

1200 grams/day ice

2 x 2 ltrs/day coke

750 grams of 'clear fliud' with very little taste - but it sure does make coke
taste very nice ! ! !

2 x 2 450 grams/day steak - very very rare c/w garlic & fresh ground black
pepper

2x2 baked spuds/day c/w sour cream

750 grams/day greens


& that is - Yes it is - - that's before 1400 hrs - each & everyday - when MANDATORY multiple 'sundowners' are surved - on the back deck - ala - 'high-tea' by 'tropical clad' dancing madiens - of course.

So - Cav - 'me-fiend' - just see - what it is that - your are missing - not being here. ha ha ha ha ha ha. = if only ha ha, james.

[rberrey]

There is a U tube with a beer setting steady on deck of a tristar 24 while under way.
That is a personal requirement high on my list, dancing madiens would be nice too . Rick

[cavalier mk2]

Can't make much sense of your provisions James but it doesn't look too digestible......Now Waddles, i mean Gary, A Tristar equivalent has to have the same interior volume. It would be hard to out Ed Ed and still have a decent sailing boat on the same length. A multichine version for the flatpanel "we can't build curves' crowd is about the only alternative for a as roomy, quicker than a mono cruiser.

[oldsailor7]

Back in the day we used to call Pivers and Horstmans Tris---Roomerans.

[cavalier mk2]

They are! It makes sense for small sizes. A Tristar was one of the first mutihulls around Cape Horn for those wondering about their sea keeping.

[rberrey]

You can also find a few in the north sea area of the UK and Norway. A man by the name of Steve Janes sailed all over the world in a 31' tristar as well. They are well proven and have a good safety record, as well as lots of room. Oldsailor, I,m a moter boat man, I'm on the water every day, but I cant sail, my brother will have to teach me how. I need a boat that is safe, has enough room for me to live on when out of town working,cheep on fuel,one I can build myself, one I can set my beer can on with out spilling,one thats not too slow or fast, one that has enough room for me and a woman to cruise on for six months,or five or six kinfolks for a weekend, a good retirement boat. Using cost per pound , 5200 to 5600 disp. is my max, 32' max . What boat fits the bill better than a tristar. Rick

[warwick]

Gary the images you put up in your post #30 post. Is it a further development of three devils or a fresh idea? keep up your ideas they may inspire someone, I my self find them interesting.

[Gary Baigent]

Much larger in volume than Three Devils, Warwick. Maybe I should continue and draw the whole boat with its large wing beam and sleeping accommodation.
I used to race on the Newick 36 Mokihi and conversely to what some critics say about bunks in a wing beam, found no trouble sleeping on that boat.
I guess all designers (and casuals like me) draw one sort of design ... then modify slightly to fit client needs, hence the similarities in Three Devils and the semi- but minimalist (I'm with Silver Raven here) Horstman.

[cavalier mk2]

Wing bunks work for me.....was Mokihi a Echo 1 design? Dick told me the Echo 1 plans were part of the donated collection to the Mariners Museum but they haven't found them yet....He did some wider designs, which wound up with a 10-1 hull instead of the usual 11-1. I'm with him on modern inconveniences.... every system left off is one less thing to go wrong. I like the idea of a water maker so less has to be carried but am more inclined to the manual versions for the exercise.

I saw a Sail Magazine review of the new Neel tri where they commented on the lack of space in older tris and had to think they hadn't seen the old roomerans.....In larger sizes I'd go with the Newick for more performance and stunning looks.....Its possible to get lost in a big Tristar......
Having the ama a bit more immersed like the Horstman's makes for a kind motion at anchor plus they help carry the total displacement., Many hi dehydral boats "walk' at anchor needing something under a ama so the crew can rest. Funny to read about the 70s and how nobody can sleep. Lots of different kinds of performance to design for. Here is a boat selection chart for clients , 1- get there first, I have a hotel....2 get there fast, I can camp on board if I need to. 3 get there soon, I like the ride and living on board. 4 I have no money but get me there

[Gary Baigent]

Mokihi is the semi-chined version of the Tricia, not round bilged. She is a pretty old boat now (but sound, nothing wrong) and Max Purnell has turned her more the cruising way with lifelines right around the wing beam and a few more comforts below deck; don't know if he still has the angled foils or not, probably not. I liked Mokihi how she was; no lifelines (Sam Hill did fall off once) and liked the simple bayonet trench down below, a pit for the blokes, as disparaging women used to describe it.
Rig was masthead - which I was critical of but the boat always sailed well and we won many races. Max did build a wing mast later. Mokihi has been overtaken now by the new Auckland lightweights like Timberwolf and co, hence Max's more cruising attitude. I say if she was stripped of junk, foils back and wing mast, would still be competitive ... but we're all getting to be old farters now.
Agreed, Cav, dihedral tris walk at anchor but Mokihi was not extreme, whereas Groucho is like a demented rocking horse - hence the inclining wing mast to keep weight one side, which works well.
The second photograph is during the White Island race (active volcano off Bay of Plenty) - Sam in cockpit; look at the lazy cleated spinnaker sheet - we did the course without the foils because Max had earlier hit bottom and broken one and lost the other too, somehow, think it fell out through the slot. So the empty foil cases gurgled and slopped the whole long way - awful brakes I thought and made one complaint, then shut up and lived with it; yet we still trounced the fleet.

[redreuben]

Hey Guys,
Op here, thanks to all for your contributions, Gary I would be really interested to see where where your drawings might lead.
I much prefer the Chamberlain Cirro take on the single beam than Newicks, not a fan I'm afraid. Love the aft cabin but think the cockpits could use a rethink (on the Cirrro). Feel free to PM me if you care too. For what it's worth the Tristar hulls are 8:1 somewhere between 9:1 and 10:1 was what I was thinking.

[warwick]

I am putting forward an idea I have had rattling around in my head for the last six months, taking note of other comments. My concern has been the rear beam location, not tying into any drawn frames as of yet. I am thinking of 6 mm ply, possibly adding curvature to the top sides and bottom as well as an angled panel at deck level to increase volume. I still have a long way to go as it is still in the early stages. The last version I have been looking at today is the mono beam more to see what it would look like.
The size is 6.6 m x 5.4 m

click on images to enlarge