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  #316  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:03 AM
cavalier mk2 cavalier mk2 is offline
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I tell everyone to buy a sound used boat to get sailing sooner and develop your skills with repairs, upgrades and maintenance. When you finally get around to building your dreamboat you will have a better idea of what you want and you'll have developed more of the chops to build it. Richard commented on building time estimates, speed of build is the area where experience will really tell. The more practiced you are at making things the faster and more efficiently you will be able to work. Treat all those home/car etc... jobs as practice for your skill sets and try to do them quickly and well. Cruising tris in today's market are more of a bargain than cats, you will get more boat for your money but you have to be careful of how much you put in because of the lower resale. The same money spent on gear and sails for a cat will give more of a return if you can live with the bigger ante. If the global economy keeps tanking adjusting your boat requirements can be the difference between sailing the dream and dreaming. We also need to do a market survey on the people buying $200,000 Wharrams that are under 40 feet so we can figure out what else to sell them!
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  #317  
Old 06-15-2010, 06:14 AM
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Alex.A Alex.A is offline
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9m/30' minimalist double ender - no tiki-bar-bits. Easy build and reasonable cost.... Pod/cuddy with tent extension. 1.5m headroom in hulls. Basic diy rig.
All this is cheap - it's what you add after that.........
Wont be a great performer but will be cheap(er).

How about a minimum proa?
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  #318  
Old 06-15-2010, 08:04 AM
rob denney rob denney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex.A View Post
9m/30' minimalist double ender - no tiki-bar-bits. Easy build and reasonable cost.... Pod/cuddy with tent extension. 1.5m headroom in hulls. Basic diy rig.
All this is cheap - it's what you add after that.........
Wont be a great performer but will be cheap(er).

How about a minimum proa?
Define minimum? The professionally built 15m/50'ter for $aus50,000/$USA42,000 contains less boat than any 30'cruisable cat. Does not need a tent, is easier to build and has 1.8m standing headroom and 0.5m sitting headroom in the bunks. Could make it shorter, but the cost saving would be pretty small, and the comfort, safety and speed would all decrease.

ob
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  #319  
Old 06-15-2010, 01:12 PM
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rayaldridge rayaldridge is offline
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Originally Posted by yahshoor View Post
I have enough project management experience to be certain that, in order to build that boat for the price Glenn cited, you'd need to be a completely self-reliant DIY whiz with lots of boatbuilding experience and off-the-charts scrounging skills. Any ordinarily resourceful amateur boatbuilder could multiply the cost estimate by pi, I'd guess, if not more. Same goes for Ray's Slider, but ~$8k is a lot easier for me to swallow than ~$40k.
I built the prototype Slider for about $2000. I used high quality underlayment instead of marine ply, and southern yellow pine instead of Douglas fir, and I built my own mainsail to start out. But even using the best of materials (which, frankly I wish I'd done now) and loft-made sails, it's hard to see how I could have spent more than $4000.

But, let's face it. It's a 16 foot open boat.

On the other hand, it's a bit more luxurious than bicycle camping or backpacking. I like to compare it to having a couple of pack horses to carry camping stuff. You can afford the weight of a cast iron skillet and a big icechest. The boat weighs 500 pounds and max displacement is 1100. When I take my two teenage sons camping, we're probably a little overloaded, but we have a big tent, chairs, cots, a large cooler, and so forth. See this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blQyR8V_gO8
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http://slidercat.com/blog/wordpress

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  #320  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:37 AM
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Manie B Manie B is offline
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Been down this road myself

Quote:
But even using the best of materials (which, frankly I wish I'd done now)
the irony of it all is that, once I really started to shop around I finally got marine ply cheaper than lousy interior. After a long and hard struggle I found wholesalers that would sell to me cutting the middleman "merchant" out
The joke is of course that it is my fifth build and that is how long it took me to figure it all out.

Moral of the story : to save costs be patient and shop around LOTS
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  #321  
Old 06-16-2010, 11:16 AM
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Alex.A Alex.A is offline
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Maybe the minimum boat really is a proa - or a Tacking outrigger?
(for those of us that aren't sure about shunting.....)
Given the cost saving of only 1 main hull etc - how many people would actually be willing to go that route?
BUT - at 9m/30' - how much boat am i losing to gain how much less spend?
AND is it still safe for off-shore?
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  #322  
Old 06-16-2010, 12:46 PM
cavalier mk2 cavalier mk2 is offline
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It is important not to confuse length with size, they are very different. Speaking of different it is hard to argue with the value that Mr. Denny is offering, those are very good prices for a pro built boat.
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  #323  
Old 06-17-2010, 03:02 AM
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Alex.A Alex.A is offline
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So a 9m TOR/proa wouldn't be long enough? Realize the space would be very minimal...?
Seems this thread is self build - minimal cost......
Still on cat concept but interested in all angle's!
What LONG distances has a Harry done? What happenned to the ocean racer.....?
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  #324  
Old 06-19-2010, 05:11 AM
rob denney rob denney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex.A View Post
So a 9m TOR/proa wouldn't be long enough? Realize the space would be very minimal...?
Seems this thread is self build - minimal cost......
Still on cat concept but interested in all angle's!
What LONG distances has a Harry done? What happenned to the ocean racer.....?
A small tacking outrigger is a disaster looking for a place to happen as it has more fore and aft stability on one tack than on the other.

An 8.7m owner modified harryproa is currently cruising the south coast of Australia. Last year he went half way up the west coast. Plan is to circumnavigate in the next year or so. Search for Doug Haines on the Yahoo harryproa chat group. Doug is a tough bloke, cruising those coasts is not for the faint hearted. A 12m harryproa sailed across the Tasman last year. Sat out 3 days of up to 45 knots on a parachute, broke a ring frame a couple of days afterwards, but made it quite comfortably. There is also a 15m cruising round Finland and the Baltic at the moment.

The 15m ocean racer is complete apart from the rig. 300 hours labour, 10 grand's worth of materials. If you can build a cruisable cat for less, or quicker, I will be very surprised. Pictures of the build, and a spreadsheet of the costs and times are also on the Yahoo harryproa group, in Phots and Files sections, under Solitarry 2.

rob
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  #325  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:26 PM
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Alex.A Alex.A is offline
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Not quicker Rob but trying to see how it can be done cheaper.....

All the millions of miles sailed by those contributing - there must be pearls of wisdom about designing and/or building boats - minimalist in mind.
And thanks to all who have contributed so far!!!!!!
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  #326  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:10 PM
cavalier mk2 cavalier mk2 is offline
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Quite a few years back Wooden Boat mag did a feature on an Irish couple who built what amounted to a large curraugh style catamaran, complete with fabric skin over a wood frame and sailed to South America. Their rig amounted to a reefable wing sail with foil section internal batten frames and the surfaces covered with some kind of cloth. The whole idea worked and was managed on a very small sub Wharram budget.
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  #327  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:35 PM
redreuben redreuben is offline
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I remember that boat it was sealed with pitch or tar, very scary but hey they lived the dream ! Seem to remember they took kids along Whoa !
RR.
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  #328  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:33 PM
cavalier mk2 cavalier mk2 is offline
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Talk about thin skinned They used a lot of traditional techniques in building it, no epoxies etc., that were up to the job. A new version with a synthetic skin might be an idea but for a budget sometimes it's hard to beat pitch and tar.
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  #329  
Old 06-22-2010, 04:46 AM
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Alex.A Alex.A is offline
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They had some skills in alt concepts - believe they even forged their own deck gear etc etc ..... the boat also ended up rotting on the beach.
Remember something about wanting to sail their horses with or back....??
Happier with a safe ply and glass cat!!
Shows what is possible tho'
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  #330  
Old 06-22-2010, 08:01 AM
cavalier mk2 cavalier mk2 is offline
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They settled in South America and the boat was pulled onto the hard because they were no longer voyaging. As far as safety goes remember people use inflatable synthetic skin boats for their life rafts as well as dinghies. The performance light weight potentials have yet to be explored. Think of it, " Team Coracle"!
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