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  #106  
Old 01-31-2009, 04:27 AM
Bruce Woods Bruce Woods is offline
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Rob, whilst on the subject of unstayed rigs, How did your sail on Rare Bird go?, you mentioned in another post you were sailing it in December on the gold coast.
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  #107  
Old 01-31-2009, 08:02 AM
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Fanie Fanie is offline
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Hi Stefano,

How high is your bridges,

How long is your cat,

and how much sail area do you expect your boat to have ?
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  #108  
Old 01-31-2009, 09:54 PM
rob denney rob denney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Woods View Post
Rob, whilst on the subject of unstayed rigs, How did your sail on Rare Bird go?, you mentioned in another post you were sailing it in December on the gold coast.
G'day,

Didn't happen, the boat is still in Coffs while the new owner sorts out the financial details. New plan is to race it in the Brisbane Gladstone this year. Could be another one entered as well if the new build technique is as quick as it appears to be.

regards,

Rob
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  #109  
Old 01-31-2009, 10:45 PM
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Spiv Spiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanie View Post
Hi Stefano,

How high is your bridges,

How long is your cat,

and how much sail area do you expect your boat to have ?
Fanie,
did you mean my bridgedeck or the bridges I want to go under?
Anyway, I will be able to go under bridges about 3.5~4m high, as long as they are more than 8.5m wide.

The bridgedeck clearance is 110cm.
LOA 16.7 (55") But in reality the boat is just a 12m cat with long hulls.
BOA 8.3m

Yankee ~120m2
Jib ~60m2
Mizzen ~40m2 (see drawing above)
Storm s. ??m2

I am still working on the final measures.
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  #110  
Old 01-31-2009, 10:47 PM
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Spiv Spiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob denney View Post
G'day,
Stefano, all those problems are solved with a wing section unstayed mast and a rigid boom attachment. It also solves the drag and operating hassles involved in large furling headsails.
Rob
Hi Rob,
You are right, but I want to go under bridges...
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  #111  
Old 02-01-2009, 04:26 PM
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Fanie Fanie is offline
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Phew... a 4m bridge is going to have you get down to a low profile.

The only way I can think of is if you can loosen some stays and lower the mast using a jin pole.

The masts I plan for my cat has slots in the hulls so the masts can hinge up or down. The slots are intended to guide the mast one way up or down only. This won't be a problem in my case since my planned sail setup is very simple.

You don't want sails to create a problem when you lower the masts, I assume you're going to use a motor to go through the bridge.

Just thinking out loud.

Start the petrol motor
Furl all sails
Drop the mast
go through bridge
pull the mast up
open sails
stop the petrol motor.

It could work. Your sails have to be made to furl easy and quick though. Also the winch rope for lowering the mast should have a specific length so it will drop down to just the right height even if not supervised.

What I'm thinking is to start the mast dropping almost automatic and unattended. You can then drive under the bridge and have the mast pulled up. I would consider using an electrical winch for this... although hydraulics may also be a possibility. A hydraulic cylinder has the power to lower and erect the mast. Electrically driven you only need to push buttons.

One would have to keep wind in mind during all this. A horizontal mast may well be quite windy if the wind is to port or star.
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  #112  
Old 02-01-2009, 04:55 PM
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oldsailor7 oldsailor7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiv View Post
Hi Rob,
You are right, but I want to go under bridges...
"Simplicate , and add less weight". (ref:- Cessna).
Not to mention less complication.

From 1964 t0 1968 I owned a Piver Nugget cabin cruiser trimaran.
We travelled in the chain of lakes just North of Toronto Canada. The lakes are linked by the Trent Canal with locks and bridges.

My Nuggets wooden mast had a tow ball screwed into the base, which sat in an oak socket on the cabin top. The back edge of the mast at the base was chamfered back allowing the mast to tilt backwards. On approaching a bridge under power (with mainsail furled), a halliard was hooked to the bottom of the forestay, via a block, to the main winch.
The mast was simply lowered down backward into a simple crutch,( two 2 x 4s bolted together near the top) in the rear of the cockpit.

Having passed under the bridge the mast was simply pulled up again, using the winch and some guiding hands and sailing (or motoring ) was resumed.

Worked for me.
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  #113  
Old 02-01-2009, 09:38 PM
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Manie B Manie B is offline
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Stefano thanks for the input

Quote:
I cannot see any problem with your rig as long as you can swing the 'boom' past the backstays.
yes most definately

Quote:
I have managed to speak with the owner of the three furlers boat today.
he was walking away from his boat going to a family meeting, so he had no time, but he said he is very happy with it.
I am buying him a beer (or two) next week and have a long chat with him, I will post his findings here straight away.
great stuff

maybe a couple of more photos ??? underway ???

jeez it is so nice to know that somebody somewhere also thinks this is a good way to go for cruising

and please some pics of your previous boat??
and while you are at it some pics of your new project what ever you got
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  #114  
Old 02-02-2009, 08:57 AM
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Spiv Spiv is offline
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Mast lowering

Oldsailor,
That is what I used to do with my last boat. You can see two pics on post 17 of this tread, that was a 17.5m wing mast, but I used an electric winch.

Manie,
2 pics on post 17 + I just added 10 pics to the gallery that show the boat under sail and the mast lowering system.
They are not available right now pending approval, let me know when you can see them.

Fanie,
The wishbone mast I drew above, is hinged above the rooftop and will lower forward, releasing the back stays with an electric winch.

The two fore furlers are 'stay-furlers'; they do not have the alluminium pipe, nor s/s wire, just a Dyaneema rope, so the sail can easily be folded on the tramp.
Yes, the wind can be a problem, if it was blowing over 25kn, I'd lower and raise my old mast pointing into the wind. With two motors it is quite easy to keep position.
The biggest and most annoying problem is the wake of stink boats going by. Some people are very inconsiderate, some plain stupid, a few will understand, slow down and pass at a distance.
Attached Thumbnails
Main-less rig-mastlowlb.jpg  
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Last edited by Spiv : 02-08-2009 at 03:25 AM. Reason: added link and picture
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  #115  
Old 05-23-2009, 08:26 AM
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Spiv Spiv is offline
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Everyone following this thread, I have made a post on Brian Eiland's thread 'WishBone Sailing Rig" with my latest drawings of the rig I intend to build.
WishBone Sailing Rig
Catch you there...
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  #116  
Old 05-24-2009, 01:04 AM
peterAustralia peterAustralia is offline
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A catamaran with a bipod mast and a lateen sail suspended from apex.

Appears to allow angle of the lateen sail to be adjusted. Additionally it ought be possible to cant the rig towards the wind if desired.

http://www.rclandsailing.com/catamaran/

n peter evans
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  #117  
Old 09-09-2011, 11:38 AM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Cross Reference

Lots of new discussions on A-frame mast over here:

WishBone Sailing Rig
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  #118  
Old 11-29-2011, 05:00 PM
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Spiv Spiv is offline
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Lots of boomless rigs

I am in Turkey and when I visited the port of Fethiye, I could not believe my eyes: Hundreds of boats with the best cruising rigs!!!

They are mostly Schooners, but some are Ketch rigged.
In this port, contrary to some other I have been, it seems they hate booms and standard mainsails, so they fitted a furling sail behind their masts.

Also twin parallel, furling headsails and believe it or not furling mizzens.

Brian and many of us have been promoters of parallel headsails for their greater efficiency.
All those furlers give you a practically infinite sail trimming capacity AND, at any wind angle!

Schooner or Ketch, I am not so sure what's more efficient, but I think the Schooner looks better and you could probably tension the headstays more.

A free beer for anybody that can find an easier rig for a cruiser!
Attached Thumbnails
Main-less rig-mainless-gulets-25.jpg  Main-less rig-mainless-gulets-23.jpg  Main-less rig-mainless-gulets-24.jpg  

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  #119  
Old 11-30-2011, 02:04 AM
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Pericles Pericles is offline
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Stefano,

I am looking at photographs of Fethiye on Google maps. What puzzles me is the plethora of crosstrees. They look like there are fleets of squareriggers in port.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/23251653

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/2911246

Thanks for the heads up.

Regards,

Perry
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  #120  
Old 11-30-2011, 02:29 AM
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waikikin waikikin is offline
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Thanks for sharing Stefano & Perry, that Panoramio is really cool, kinda like being there but not as much fun...... one day I would love to see these places for real.
Best regards from Jeff.
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