Low price Catamarans

[masalai]

Robert, I would be inclined to read that as, - - you the "owner" - should insure your boat against fire/loss/damage whilst in the workshop, - - - as ***** has no incentive to insure it against "outside" causes - in the example of - - the shed gets burned down & he disappears - - and you? - - your boat disappears....

[kengrome]

If the contract states that the buyer is the owner then theoretically the buyer is the one who will lose if the boat is not insured. On the other hand if the builder doesn't insure the boat and then it is lost in a fire or destroyed in a hurricane or whatever, he still has the obligation to build another one and deliver it according to the terms of the contract, doesn't he?

So even though the owner should insure the boat himself, for increasingly higher values as the boat is being constructed, it is really the builder who is more at risk than the owner here (assuming an ethical builder of course) since the builder may not have the money to build another one from scratch if the existing hull is stolen or destroyed before delivery.

On the other hand, if the builder is unethical and doesn't care about his reputation he may just 'disappear' as masalai suggested. In this case the buyer is left with a total loss of his invested capital -- unless he had been wise enough to insure in the first place.

[masalai]

Not if he is "lost in the disaster"

[also concerned]

Hello All,

When I was in Pattaya Thailand area recently, I came across a crew working on a boat named Island Breeze, built by ***** B. ( see Photos ) the crew working on the boat said it was less than a year old.

I noticed that the mast and boom are fiber over wood and I asked if this mast was heavy ?...the crane guy said about 800 kilograms or more !!! wow !! that's about 1,700 lbs. and the boom was so heavy they moved it with the crane also.

I am not a expert on rigging and wonder if this is OK to have this weight aloft on a catamaran?

When this mast was removed, water came gushing out of it!!. It was part full of rain water....this does not seem right for a mast....a wood mast !! I noticed the mast step had no drains.

Also, I noticed that the mast has a slight "S" shaped and the builder had added pipes and wires on the forward side of mast. The top of the mast was curved forward....I have never seen this before ! I have always seen cat masts raked aft. or straight...I have never seen one slightly "S" shaped or curved forward !!

I also noticed that the plastic sheaves on the mast head are jammed because the heavy steel mast cap had dropped/crushed down on them.

note: the mast head lights used...only red/green.....these are side lights without a aft white light.( are the nav. rules different in Thailand ? )

Crew working on boat said it was "sinking" because of rudder posts leaking !!
They also told me boat was full of water below floor boards !!

Seemed strange a new boat in the water less than a year would be sinking !
I went to the Marina office and asked if the owner of Island Breeze was around ? and that I wanted information on this builder...they just shook their head no... !!


Can a rigger tell me if a mast and boom on a 42 foot cat with a rig weight of over 2000 lbs is safe ? please review photos and comment.

Could I get feedback or comments by professional riggers and boat builders please.

Thanks for your comments.
just looking
AC

[propshaft]

Good news - now crane guys can do survey of boats!

I guess the mast is in cedar. Assume section is 200x300mm, oval shaped (shape factor about 0.7), hollow inside (factor about 0.5), length about 18m. Density of wood - 360 kg/m3.

So wood for this mast will weight about 140 kg. Even glassed with FRP and all fittings attached the mast can not weight 800 kg.

800 kg is the weight of continous log in heavy MaiTaken wood...

[propshaft]

Also would add that those photos show badly maintained boat, not badly built boat.

[RB PowerSailing]

Dear Also Concerned ,


you don't say the truth .


Island Breeze has been removed from the water exactly 1 year before .

So you didn't see the boat rigged as the mast has been removed in September 2007 .


So you didn't see any curve "S" on the mast , unless the mast was curved when laying in the floor , but then what means ?

The mast can be lifted by 4 persons .

The boom by 2 .

Surely much heavier then an aluminum mast , so built to save money , with the agreement of the purchaser .

Mast could be around 200 kg .

Mast is glassed with unidirectional / epoxy on a core of cedar . Hollow .

Riggings from Rolly Tasker Phuket . 1 x 19 316 L etc .

I also noticed that the plastic sheaves on the mast head are jammed because the heavy steel mast cap had dropped/crushed down on them.

Plastic means nylon , and are pinned in the mast head , so the weight of the mast head don't means nothing . Not heavy anyway .

You didn't see the mast beeing removed as it happened in september 2007 , and you have seen the boat recently .

Ah , yes , another lie : nobody is working on Island Breeze as no money has been paid to Mark from the owner Mr. Kenneth Stone . They did nothing on the boat .

So , dear mr . Also Concerned , pls change your nick with Also Lier , and keep posting !


The boat was not sinking , and Mark's crew didn't say that ; but a rudder was leaking , this is real . unfortunately the boat , in one of his 30+ charters , hit a rock or a coral and damaged the rudder .

I guess that from your point of view , this is also Builder responsability .

As Mr. Stone and Mr. Graham are not writing to the forum since a few days , i was personally concerned to run out of funny stories , but happily your letter showed up .


RB Power and Sailing


===================================================

When I was in [BPattaya Thailand area recently, I came across a crew working on a boat named Island Breeze, built by ***** B. ( see Photos ) the crew working on the boat said it was less than a year old.



I noticed that the mast and boom are fiber over wood and I asked if this mast was heavy ?...the crane guy said about 800 kilograms or more !!! wow !! that's about 1,700 lbs. and the boom was so heavy they moved it with the crane also.

[RB PowerSailing]

Dear Readers ,


in one post i found something that is not correct and need to be rectified :

This builder exploits Thai labour and uses cheap materials and substandard parts. and at the end of the project...the price doubles....extras that he does not inform you of.


RB Power & Sailnig is an ISO 9001-2000 Certifed Company Boatbuilder , since 1998 .

We employ 117 workers , Thai Nationals , and some foreigners .

All the workers are employed in strict abservance of the Thai Labour Rules .

Let me add that we have workers that earn more then 1,000 US$ / month , and that even an helper newly employed , earns 236 US$ /month , that is little bit but anyway much higher then the 136 US$ foreseen by the Labour Law , as first salary .

We don't employ under age workers .

We give , free of charge , a room to all our workers ( if requested ) , including electricity , water , cable TV , fridge , bed.

We got an internal system of loaning money from the Company , and a few workers drive their own car , purchased with Company guarantee as collateral .

Many of our workers stay with us 10 years already , and it is exactly like a large family . For Christmas i take them to a Korean BBQ and all of them got double salary , gifts and prices .

I got in our office a bunch of requests from many workers , employed in other Yards ,as our conditions are just excellent , at least for Thailand .

Together with wifes and babies , this is a community of 300+ persons .


About the materials :

All purchased from ISO Certified or well known Companies :

Resins from Siam Chemical Industry
Glass cloth from Saint Gobain
Sails from Rolly Tasker Phuket
Paint from Chugoku
Teak wood from Thai Teak Veneer
winches from Lewmar

just as example .


About the claim of extra charges :

We still didn't have a single case of a contract not respected or underestimated . Never ever any adjustment has been done ,

in OVER 100 vessels contracted and delivered .

Obviously extra works not included in the contract , must be charged , and even in this case , any extra work is estimated and must be approved by the Purchaser in written , before proceeding .

Thanks for the attention .

RB Power & Sailing

[robert self]

Originally Posted by Been-Robbed

THIS MAST WAS REMOVED...MAST WEIGHT IS ABOUT 1,700 POUNDS OR MORE !! NEED TO REPLACE WITH ALUMINUM MAST AND BOOM.

Originally Posted by also concerned

I noticed that the mast and boom are fiber over wood and I asked if this mast was heavy ?...the crane guy said about 800 kilograms or more !!! wow !! that's about 1,700 lbs. and the boom was so heavy they moved it with the crane also.

Is it just me or has been-robbed re-appeared as also concerned?

Originally Posted by propshaft

Good news - now crane guys can do survey of boats!

Got a good laugh out of this one!

Originally Posted by propshaft

I guess the mast is in cedar. Assume section is 200x300mm, oval shaped (shape factor about 0.7), hollow inside (factor about 0.5), length about 18m. Density of wood - 360 kg/m3.

So wood for this mast will weight about 140 kg. Even glassed with FRP and all fittings attached the mast can not weight 800 kg.

800 kg is the weight of continous log in heavy MaiTaken wood...

I don't know about the mast dimentions, 18m (60ft) mast 200x300mm (8 in x 11in) section, but they don't seem unreasonable for a 42ft catamarran.

I calculated the weight of a solid 18m tall x 280mm diameter teak pole, which has about the same density as Mai Taken, and I get a weight of 707kg (1500 pounds).

A solid cedar pole would weigh about 400kg (880 pounds).

So FWIW I concur with propshaft. It is hard for me to believe that been-robbed's hollow, glued-up, cedar mast could weigh 800kg (1,700 pounds).

Credibility becomes an issue when facts are not checked or willfully falsifyed.
Been-robbed and also concerned should do some homework and send in a rebuttal.

cheers
rself

[robert self]

Originally Posted by ccoh

As for the Hans Christians, I wouldn't buy one*– just as I wouldn't buy a French or English 'average white boat'.

The Hans Christian line of monohulls are not "averge white boats". Go to http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...ncedSearch.jsp and search on 'hans christian' to convince yourself.

What's the connection to ***** **********? He has a hans christian 33 hull that his boatyard fitted out many years ago. He might sell it to you for a good price. The boat looked good from the outside when I saw it last March at his Thepprasit yard. Of course, always, "buyer beware". If you know nothing about boats get a qualifyed surveryor to check it out.

cheers
rself

[RB PowerSailing]

Dear All

i need to specify that the Hans Christian 33' that is sitting in Thepprasit Yard , has been sold to a thai Customer since 3 years . So don't belongs to us anymore . The Client is keeping the boat in store , in our place , and is building a cat 50' with us at the moment .

Mr. Sittichai owns a private marina in Chonbury , where we are building an ocean front facility : Tepnakorn Marina .

Anyway the boat is NOT an original Hans Christian but a bare hull that we purchased and completed without following the original layout of the 33' Traditional Hans Christian .


Greeting to everybody

RB Power & Sailing

[RB PowerSailing]

Greetings from Thailand

[RB PowerSailing]

Greetings from Thailand

[also concerned]

Hello All,

Looking for suggestions from Quality Boat Builders on new yacht repairs.

First two photos show the builders through hull hoses below water line without hose clamps and very odd sea-cock? is it OK to have soft rubber hoses ? will this builders " sea-cock " be OK without clamps?

fresh water pump is plumbed with electrical conduit pipe through the boat, is this OK? ( note pump area is flooded with water )

Both hull sub-floors are full of wash and rain water, due to leaking windscreen defects. will this be bad for the plywood hull ? ( note blisters on floors ( dozens and dozens of blisters ) oozing blisters shown see dark staining.

Hull outsides are full of soft blisters, epoxy ply building method. what is the best way to fix this defect.? any suggestions.

This boat was in the water only 11 months and in charter service and was managed by the builder, this boat has been hauled out by the owner, and now asking for suggestions on correct repair methods for the defects from High quality builders, Thanks

please see photos below and add comments:

[RHough]

Originally Posted by also concerned

This boat was in the water only 11 months and in charter service and was managed by the builder, this boat has been hauled out by the owner, and now asking for suggestions on correct repair methods for the defects from High quality builders, Thanks

please see photos below and add comments:

It is amazing what lack of maintenance can do in short order.

Who would take delivery of a boat with obvious faults? Who did the pre-commissioning survey? Were any shortcoming noticed at that time? Were they corrected before the owner decided to put the boat into service? What standard of construction was specified in the contract?