Low price Catamarans

[propshaft]

Originally Posted by rayaldridge

The surveyor:

In any case, conduit is not approved for potable water use, in any country, as far as I know. I don't know how toxic the stuff is. Do you? The point here is that the customer shouldn't have to worry that he's being poisoned by substandard piping. He has a right to expect safe pipe even if it isn't spelled out in the contract.

Keep talking about 'toxic hose'... Please try to answer these questions:

- What is the material of fresh water tank? Suspect it is in fiberglass.
- Is one suposed to drink water from this tank? Water one fills in marina is NOT drinking water. Water for drinking and cooking is only available in bottles in Thailand.
- Third, is it marked as 'elecrical conduct', or this is just surveyor's guess??? The builder can get the spec for this product and claim the surveyor for making false statements.

Still no details about passenger boat from BEEN.DONE. Would like to see the details of that case, but looks like nothing to show.

[rayaldridge]

Originally Posted by propshaft

Keep talking about 'toxic hose'... Please try to answer these questions:

Is that you, *****?

Ray

http://slidercat.com

[propshaft]

Originally Posted by rayaldridge

Is that you, *****?

Ray

http://slidercat.com

No
Just another 'perspective victim' of him

[kengrome]

The internet gives cheated customers a way of striking back at unscrupulous businessmen. I'm all for it. Businessmen who value their reputations have to deal with such allegations, or they lose. The process encourages ethical treatment of customers, and who but an unethical sharpster would object to customers publicising bad treatment? To me, the freedom to complain about unscrupulous business practices is a lot more important than a business's desire not to be bothered with such complaints.

Ray, I agree with everything you say here. The Internet is a *great* way to help keep people honest and ethical, and to ferret out those who claim to be so but are not -- assuming they stick around long enough for us to pin them down in a lie instead of hiding or disappearing the moment their assertions are challenged like Mr. Stone (Been-Robbed) did ...

Now here's something that's actually interesting for a change. I just received an email from ***** and he is disputing two of the claims people have been making here ...

He says Mr. Graham Rivens (Been.Done.) posted a picture of a 42' electric cat wave piercer hull (post #59 on page 2) which shows plywood bulkheads. ***** says Mr. Rivens knows very well that these plywood bulkheads were installed temporarily for the purpose of testing the hull's flotation characteristics, and were later replaced with synthetic bulkheads, thus leaving no plywood in the boat -- as per the contract specs.

This makes me question the ethics of Mr. Rivens. If it is true that he knows those plywood bulkheads were only temporary, why would he use this forum to make it look like ***** is not following the contract specs? Was he just trying to make ***** look bad for some reason???

The point here is that the customer shouldn't have to worry that he's being poisoned by substandard piping. He has a right to expect safe pipe even if it isn't spelled out in the contract.

I agree, that's why I would use the same pipe that's approved for potable water use on land. But just because I might use the proper pipe, that won't stop a disgruntled buyer from claiming on the Internet that I used electrical conduit instead, will it?



Obviously we still don't know what type of pipe or tubing was used in Mr. Stone's (Been-Robbed's) boat because he has abandoned this thread without answering a single important question we asked him to address here. But ***** specifically addressed this issue in his email by saying:

"we never ever used any electric conduit for the water or so ."

So who is telling the truth here?

Your guess is as good as mine, but in my opinion the whiners in this thread are going to have to do a much better job of arguing their points and proving their claims before I would believe anything they say any more. Their credibility is being challenged yet they won't prove a thing they claim ...

[kengrome]

Hi Kengrome, since you are in the boat building business in Asia, please ballpark a reasonable profit margin to build a boat and also ballpark your $ per pound of displacement cost?

Hi Robert,

The last time I gave a potential customer a ballpark figure for a strip planked bottom and plywood / epoxy / fiberglass composite sandwich catamaran hull in the 30-40 foot size range I think I told him $7.00 per pound for a hull / deck / cabin finished on the outside but unfinished on the inside, or $12.00 per pound for a hull that's completely finished inside and out.

The second price includes built-in wooden furniture but not the fixtures and related components such as heaters, stoves, sinks, etc. that need to be purchased separately and not built from scratch ... and neither price includes the parts or labor for the sail and/or ICE propulsion system and related components.

The truth is, I much prefer to build for $9 per hour plus materials rather than working under the cloud of a fixed contract price. It's more fun to build a boat when I can focus on quality construction and not worry about my bottom line, and my bottom line is simply not an issue when my profit is built into the hourly labor rate.

[BEEN.DONE.]

Hi
I have many, as in many, problems with my boat but this is the most important.
You will see that ***** designed and built this boat.
He built it to transport passengers around the ko chang archipelago. The 1st attachment shows a receipt for design work. The 2nd is his web site description of my boat. ***** clearly states that the boat is for rivers and lakes. Ko Chang island has no navigatable rivers and certainly no lakes. The boat was ordered for the Ko Chang islands ie sea going.









.

[BEEN.DONE.]

Hi again
The next issue is inadequate bouyancy displacement whatever. The boat is not able to take the weight of it's load. Remember there are no engines or equipment on the boat.

[masalai]

Those pages show nothing - - - no specifications, design constraints, build material, are these of the front page of an advertising brochure?

So if he, as claimed by you, "***** clearly states that the boat is for rivers and lakes." ? - - - You accepted it and signed so accordingly? - - - You got yourself and only yourself to blame.....

[BEEN.DONE.]

hi masalai
correct :- they were the start of a brochure to warn people.
and don't you realise the boat has to be ??finished?? before it is put to water.
mine wasn't but...this web site followed this action - obviously you cannot have a boat launch in the sea before I'd even ordered it. This was a one-off, with the option of more.
www.********************/catamarans-building.html
I have nobody to blame except the person who designed and built my boat.
my boat has never been tested,(electric engines useless), accepted or signed for.

[BEEN.DONE.]

HI kengrome
your friend emailed you?
you believe him straight away - as you say stop all unprooven banter.


Hi
does anyone know how to lay up coremat?
there are 1'' to 2'' gaps between the sheets as per pix.
It appears to me that the gaps in the coremat must be weak points and in fact could it mean the whole hull is weak?

[kengrome]

You will see that ***** designed and built this boat. He built it to transport passengers around the ko chang archipelago. The 1st attachment shows a receipt for design work.

This file is worthless because it does not show any design parameters. Where are they? Please post the DESIGN CONTRACT you agreed to with ***** that specifies the boat's required design parameters -- such as maximum draft at various displacement figures, L/B ratios at various draft levels, etc.

Or didn't you bother to secure such a contract?
And if not, why not???

The 2nd is his web site description of my boat. ***** clearly states that the boat is for rivers and lakes. Ko Chang island has no navigatable rivers and certainly no lakes.

Another useless document since it is nothing more than a web page which contains no specifications and no signatures. Are you trying to make an argument that ***** should have designed a different boat for you to use for your intended purpose? If so, you are failing miserably.

The next issue is inadequate bouyancy displacement whatever. The boat is not able to take the weight of it's load. Remember there are no engines or equipment on the boat.

What is this "load" you're referring to, specifically? I don't mean "how many people" I mean specific kg displacements? They should be specified in your DESIGN CONTRACT -- which I hope will be the very next document you post, since none of the other documents you've posted have any value -- other that to point out your mistakes and false claims of course.



This is not a construction issue anyways, it is a design issue. Why didn't you resolve this issue before you started construction? In fact, why didn't you insure that the design specs were met before you paid ***** the final 20,000 baht remaining balance on your so-called design contract?

If ***** has any capabilities as a designer he could have easily told you the boat's draft at specific displacement figures long before he started building that first hull. It would take me no more than 3-4 hours to do this myself right now, and I haven't even entered the hull dimensions into my software yet.

Look ... if one of the hulls has already been built and it won't hold the load you want to put into it (whatever that is) either YOU FAILED to specify the correct draft levels and displacement figures from the beginning, or YOU FAILED to confirm that the designer's calculations complied with your requirements before you paid the design balance. Which is it in this case?

Either way YOU ALSO FAILED to insure that the design work was done properly before you paid ***** his initial deposit to start building the boat!!!

I cannot help but wonder what makes you think you have the right to neglect all these responsibilities of yours so early in the game, then blame everything on ***** later?

I have nobody to blame except the person who designed and built my boat.

This is the biggest line of crap I've heard from you yet. The fact is, you have only YOURSELF to blame for repeatedly making the mistakes I've identified above that you never should have made in the first place.

Some how you seem to think you can blame the designer / builder for your own screw-ups, and buddy, I'm not buying your arguments for a minute. I will believe that you are blame-free when I see a contract that specifies items ***** promised but failed to deliver ...

So please just post your design contract ASAP and maybe we can place the blame with the proper persons from now on.

[BEEN.DONE.]

Hi guys and or..
my internet here on this beautiful island in thailand is abysmal.
microwave is used to send the signal to the main land.
I thought the only time that microwave was used was for cooking - no wonder. I will compose my thoughts and pix off-line and post as an attachment when the weather is ok.
cheers

[BEEN.DONE.]

Ken
just visited your web site.
you claim to be a boat builder and thus you should know all the ins and outs of the trade.
perhaps you can answer my last post re coremat
When you buy a car at the showroom the garage takes care of all legal documents etc for you. most customers would not know what docs etc were required. the honest garage does this for you.
The same for an honest boat builder. he should make sure that all correct ducumentation is supplied and signed properly.
I assumed this guy was an honest guy and that when I ordered the new boat the builder would see to the paperwork and documentation.
the lack of any documents proves that something is wrong.
have you had another email from *****?

[BEEN.DONE.]

Ken The Honest Boat Builder
The Construction Issues Are Coming Too.

[kengrome]

Ken The Honest Boat Builder The Construction Issues Are Coming Too.

Graham,

Please skip the additional complaints until after you've posted your DESIGN CONTRACT and CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT.

I keep trying to explain that no one cares about any of your complaints unless they are justified -- and the contracts are your justification!

So please stop posting more and more complaints and get to the heart of the matter -- the contracts -- without wasting any more time.

Thanks.