Low price Catamarans

[RB PowerSailing]

Dear Ellie ,

I think i explained to you from the very first time that we were selling the penny 26 as an auction , for a very small value , as was taking space inside the yard ; then for ,basically, any amount . That boat , the Penny 26 , is a beautiful design and i personally liked very much . Unfortunately she is not the best solution for the wheather of Thailand and the shipping costs are too high ; so ended up being extremely difficult to sell . In a yard often happens to have stored , sitting there for decades , molds , plugs and partially completed projects , and so happens to us as well . I sold ( let's say that i gave them away , more specifically ) recently, motors , plugs , a trimaran and other parts , just to clear some valuable space . I am well aware that is difficult to take a decision within few days and without having seen the boat ! Pls understand that we need to sell to the first who pays , in a case as this one . I received a number of enquires about that boat , as we were selling for about 20% of her real value ; We did not intend waste your time , and i apologize if this happened .
If sometimes i don't answer to the emails , or with some delay , i apologize with everybody : non-routine emails are mostly answered by myself directly and some days i need to handle over 50 emails from customers and potential customers . I don't have idea of what this thread wanted to mean , but it is proven that a boat can be built in Thailand achieving an excellent quality and some good savings ; These is the reason why so many customers are coming here everyday to fulfill their dreams , of course not only with RB , but with all the local yards .
Pls visit constantly our website ( and yes , also the websites of our competitors !) to see how many new boats are constantly built and delivered in Thailand .
Best Regards

RB

[E3Nomad]

I've spent half a lifetime as a marine surveyor, designer and consultant. I've also set up and run a production boatbuilding company, which still thrives. Throughout it all, I've found effective communication the most useful of all management tools, and I'm also aware of the many pressures in small boatyards that make that hard sometimes.

I accept your apology - and because we are moving off topic for this thread, it's perhaps best now to leave others to comment if they have anything relevant to say.

[robert self]

Originally Posted by E3Nomad

This newly registered lurker (Hi folks!) hears rumours of problems prior to the launch of ccoh's Tiki and RB has offered to sell me a part-complete Penny 26 that shows more than a passing resemblance to the boat in rself's pdf. Can anyone enlighten me?

Hi All,

Yes this is my Penny 26. I have employed the services of a Thai-based attorney and am attempting to gain control of my boat. Mr. **********, for his part is attempting to sell the boat.

In my opinion the significant events are:

7/15/08 I am billed for, but refuse to prepay for the next stage of work until I see evidence that the current stage is complete.
7/23/08 Chris Harrell, the supervisor of my build, is fired.
7/23 - 10/19 I make repeated requests to Mr. ********** to please meet the contracted specifications before I prepay for the next stage.
10/19 - 10/29 Mr. ********** threatens me with breech of contract but then installs ballast and deck which put him in partial compliance with the contract.
10/29 I arrive in Pattaya to verbal threats of a defamation suit because I post in this forum and confiscation of my passport "while the case is investigated" all from *****'s employees ***** **** and Flavio Gatti.
10/31 I contact Steve Burkhill, a Thai-based attorney, with Watson Farley & Williams for advice.
11/12/08 Under this cloud of threats, which I take seriously, I depart Thailand two months earlier than planned.

Currently I am working with my attorney to gain control of my boat or obtain redress from ***** for breech of contract.

The contract, which by the way is unaltered from the original sent to me by *****, states that the 4th stage payment is due "upon substantial completion of the fitting of the interior joinery work". I attach pictures I recieved on 7/19, four days after recieving the invoice from Mr. **********. I submit to you the reader to come to your own conclusion. In my opinion a Thai judge will agree with me that this interior was NOT substantially complete in July and the invoice was many months premature. Mr. ********** knows this perfectly well, else why the manic flurry of work in October and resending the same invoice a second time. Why the thuggish behavior of threats of a defamation lawsuit, which is serious business in Thailand when carried out by cash-rich individuals.

In truth I was enjoying the process of building my dream boat while working with Chris Harrell. How could the interioir possibly be "substantially complete" when we had at least 30 tasks under active discussion, most prominant of which was installing the lead ballast. How can the builder permanently install the main cabin sole without first installing the ballast under the sole? How can an interior be "substantially complete" without the sole? Very crazy stuff. The world came crashing down when Mr. ***** ********** inserted himself as supervisor.

Regrets,

rself

[robert self]

Originally Posted by robert self

Hi All,

Yes this is my Penny 26. I have employed the services of a Thai-based attorney and am attempting to gain control of my boat. Mr. **********, for his part is attempting to sell the boat.

In my opinion the significant events are:

7/15/08 I am billed for, but refuse to prepay for the next stage of work until I see evidence that the current stage is complete.
7/23/08 Chris Harrell, the supervisor of my build, is fired.
7/23 - 10/19 I make repeated requests to Mr. ********** to please meet the contracted specifications before I prepay for the next stage.
10/19 - 10/29 Mr. ********** threatens me with breech of contract but then installs ballast and deck which put him in partial compliance with the contract.
10/29 I arrive in Pattaya to verbal threats of a defamation suit because I post in this forum and confiscation of my passport "while the case is investigated" all from *****'s employees Allan Ganz and Flavio Gatti.
10/31 I contact Steve Burkhill, a Thai-based attorney, with Watson Farley & Williams for advice.
11/12/08 Under this cloud of threats, which I take seriously, I depart Thailand two months earlier than planned.

Currently I am working with my attorney to gain control of my boat or obtain redress from ***** for breech of contract.

The contract, which by the way is unaltered from the original sent to me by *****, states that the 4th stage payment is due "upon substantial completion of the fitting of the interior joinery work". I attach pictures I recieved on 7/19, four days after recieving the invoice from Mr. **********. I submit to you the reader to come to your own conclusion. In my opinion a Thai judge will agree with me that this interior was NOT substantially complete in July and the invoice was many months premature. Mr. ********** knows this perfectly well, else why the manic flurry of work in October and resending the same invoice a second time. Why the thuggish behavior of threats of a defamation lawsuit, which is serious business in Thailand when carried out by cash-rich individuals.

In truth I was enjoying the process of building my dream boat while working with Chris Harrell. How could the interioir possibly be "substantially complete" when we had at least 30 tasks under active discussion, most prominant of which was installing the lead ballast. How can the builder permanently install the main cabin sole without first installing the ballast under the sole? How can an interior be "substantially complete" without the sole? Very crazy stuff. The world came crashing down when Mr. ***** ********** inserted himself as supervisor.

Regrets,

rself

[dutz]

Does anyone know what happened to ccoh's blogsite?

https://www.blogger.com/blogin.g?blo...logspot.com%2F

it is now login only.

I attach a screen-dmped of what I believe to have been the last public transmission.

Strange that the site goes dark just days before launch by Mr. ***** **********'s yard!

dt

[david@boatsmith]

Where is Creed? Sureis odd that someone who was posting a lot goes silent, (private) right at launch time. David

By the way just a consideration from a builder, it appears to have a kind of virus going around from customers of custom built boats: participating in the construction, first they press during it every day to finish the boat then when it is nearly finished they don't want to leave anymore the yard... and get their boat launched and finally ready to be used. But even the hobby (for them...) of building a custom boat should have an end.... Or I can suggest starting a new one and the hobby will continue...

[RB PowerSailing]

Thanks for all your interest about the Tiki 38 of Mr. O'Hanlon .
We are planning to launch the boat tomorrow and i will publish some pics on our website and may be here as well .

Regards

RB

[RB PowerSailing]

The below reported communications between Mr. Self and Mr. Allan should not need further commentaries ; the boat has been sold at the beginning of the year .
The Yard performed strictly as foreseen by the Contract between the Parties and in full respect of the Laws ; RB gave a docens of opportunities to Mr. Self to rescue his project , but he agreed in written to sell the boat and he even posted himself an advertissement .
Nobdy ever threatened Mr. Self and Mr. Allan on behalf of RB , tried many times to help the Client and to work out any possible solution without selling the craft .

RB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:48:58 -0800
From: abarenicola@<removed-for-internet-post>
To: allanganz@<removed-for-internet-post>
Subject: Re: communicate by email

Hi Allan,
Now your emails say you are saddened by my loss and want to cut a deal.
I will do this. I will post in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/macnau...oincollection/ saying that there is a partially built Penny 26 for sale in Pattaya, Thailand and to contact you at the above email address if interested.
Barring the boat sold, maybe we can do a deal after the worldwide recession is over...in a year.
cheers
rself


On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 7:21 AM, allan ganz <allanganz@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,
Thank you for the mail. I have been busy working a deal for you, as I would really like you to salvage your project.
I have negotiated on your behalf that if you came forward with $10,000.00, you can remove the boat and complete
your project. I can give this to you in writing if you accept the offer. It saddens me to see anyone take a loss while
there is a way out. Please give it careful consideration.
Take care
Allan

[RB PowerSailing]

Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:37:26 +0700

Subject: Re: communicate by email



Hi Allan,
Too late. I've put the cash I set aside for the boat back into the market.
Any deal with you could be annuled by ***** after he fired you. The guy is too erratic.
Give my email address to whomever buys my boat. I'll be glad to help them any way I can.

cheers,
robert self


Dear Readers ,

let me underline that Mr. Chris Harrel has never been fired but he had to resign as he moved to another town ( he married a beautiful Thai Lady -congratulations again );
At RB we respect the Labor Laws anyway and still exist in this country Labor Contracts , so nobody get fired without reason just like this .
It seems to me that Mr. Self is erratic too , just reading his mails ..

Regards


RB

[RB PowerSailing]

Dear All ,

just for precision , and as Mr. Self published on this forum a number of unproper statements , here below our answer to the Legal Representatives of Mr. Self .

We did not heard from them , from that date .

Regards

RB



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: apolivnick@<removed-for-internet-post>
Subject: Robert Self
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:36:01 +0000


*****'s Sailing Center Co., Ltd.


By Email: apolivnick@<removed-for-internet-post>
By Fax: 02 665 7888

Watson, Farley & Williams (Thailand) Ltd.
Attn : A. Polivnick

21 December, 2008

Dear Mr. Polivnick,

I refer to your email dated 19 December, 2008 re contract entered into with Robert Self in June 2007
for the construction and supply of the vessel known as "Penny 26".

Mr. Self was provided notice of anticipated date of completion of stage 4 per email, as is our usual method
of communication. Further to this we waited until his trip to Thailand in October for him to come to our yard
to survey the boat himself.

Two of our employees met with Mr. Self at his hotel the morning after his arrival in Pattaya. This meeting was
to arrange the time and day of the survey of his boat. Mr. Self made it quite clear that due to economic
conditions he was not interested in continuing his project.

I have emails in my possession where Mr. Self has stated that the funds for this project he had invested in the
market and even after offering him a deal in order that he not lose his boat, he refused. In fact, I have an email
where Mr. Self offers to list this boat on the internet, which he actually did, in order to assist us in finding a buyer
for his boat.

According to the contract, we sent notice to Mr. Self, during which time he simply did not reply. Thereafter we
sent second notice as per contract, to which no reply was received, except to say that he would list his boat as
described above.

As per your letter, dated 19 December, 2008, you state your client was and remains willing to make the stage payment. Prior to this date, as per the emails received from Mr. Self, Mr. Self clearly states that he is not interested in continuing with this project. I respectfully request you consult with your client on this matter as I have it verbally, directly from the mouth of Mr. Self himself. in the presence of two of our employees, and thereafter by email, that he had no intention of completing the project and in fact, had decided to abandon the project, as stated in his emails, which I have for the record.

Please note that as per our notice to Mr. Self, the contract has been terminated and as per further notice to Mr.
Self, the boat was put on the market for sale, as per the contract and has subsequently been sold.

Yours faithfully,


Legal Representative
For *****'s Sailing Center Co., Ltd.

[dutz]

Originally Posted by RB PowerSailing

Thanks for all your interest about the Tiki 38 of Mr. O'Hanlon .
We are planning to launch the boat tomorrow and i will publish some pics on our website and may be here as well .

Regards

RB

I'm finding this thread to be an invaluable resource for due diligence research on Thai boatbuilders. A person can get a good feeling for what goes on in the back office and behind the, "everything is perfect" ,websites presentations.

I'm more interested in the pre-conditions for launch then the launch itself. How large is the off-contract balloon payment? What are the terms of the indemnity aganist structural defects? Will there be a "keep silent" clause? Will tiki38 submit to these pre-conditions or ?.

[Alik]

Originally Posted by dutz

I'm finding this thread to be an invaluable resource for due diligence research on Thai boatbuilders.

I don't think that internet forum where anonymous users post rumours and defamation is a source of anything. If You want to make decision on builder - visit the yard, see the boats. Everyone can choose builder for his budget and quality expectations, and even for perfect English language skills (some believe these are required for boatbuilding).

Originally Posted by dutz

I'm finding this thread to be an invaluable resource for due diligence research on Thai boatbuilders. A person can get a good feeling for what goes on in the back office and behind the, "everything is perfect" ,websites presentations.

I'm more interested in the pre-conditions for launch then the launch itself. How large is the off-contract balloon payment? What are the terms of the indemnity aganist structural defects? Will there be a "keep silent" clause? Will tiki38 submit to these pre-conditions or ?.

If You can decide how to choose a boat builder from a forum please do not consider us as a choice...
Thanks
******* Boatyard Co., Ltd. - Thailand

[RB PowerSailing]

Dear All

as by many persons requested , here can see some pics of the Tiki 38 of Mr. Ccoh ; As i said , the boat has not been yet delivered due to some paperworks on going , but has been launched and tested .
This is a Tiki 38 heavily modified and not approved by James Wharram Design , with the hulls build in cedar strip planking , epoxy/biaxial , decks in honeycomb . The boat is floating higher then the expected waterline and handling well . Still to be tested under sail .
The skeg of this boat is a kind of sacrificial appendix and not a backbone as originally foreseen .RB built this vessel as from customer's requirements , as 'one of a kind ' project .

Regards

RB