Laminate drawings and schedule for 52 ft coastal catamaran

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Ismotorsport, Mar 4, 2012.

  1. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,075
    Likes: 357, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    Seems You do not really have a design. There is an (incomplete) 3D and number of hydrostatic files quick generated by computer...

    In our experience, design of similar size/type of boat is this:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 2,000
    Likes: 223, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    I don't understand why you are not happy with the existing laminate, the foam densities and e glass fabrics all seem appropriate materials for the intended use and layup method.

    How light do you want to spend ?

    Any materials supplier will be able to recalculate a lighter or cheaper laminate based on the existing schedule.
    Just a final point you will get marginal value for money with carbon in a wet layup, but if you go infusion everything changes, but dependent on the skills and budget at hand.
    RR
     
  3. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,075
    Likes: 357, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    No.
    ---
     
  4. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 2,000
    Likes: 223, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Why not ?
     
  5. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 2,440
    Likes: 179, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 871
    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    May be not any materials supplier, but some can & have skilled NAs & Composites Engineers working for them, SP Systems springs to mind. Jeff.
     
  6. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 2,000
    Likes: 223, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Oh well of course not any, any reputable......
     
  7. fng
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 57
    Likes: 3, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 46
    Location: new zealand

    fng Junior Member

    Here's a thought or two.
    Will your designer/engineer put an insurable warranty on the design/construction.
    In other words do they have liability insurance to cover what there offering.
    Does the structure in any way comply to any standard, and make the vessel insurable.
     
  8. sabahcat
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 792
    Likes: 28, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 273
    Location: australia

    sabahcat Senior Member

    How thick is the core?
    In broad terms a thick core with light skin can achieve same panel stiffness as a thin core with heavy skin.
    Where furniture, floors webs etc are placed will also help with panel stiffness
     
  9. DavidJ
    Joined: Jun 2004
    Posts: 222
    Likes: 33, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 441
    Location: Canada

    DavidJ Senior Member

    Will "help" with panel thickness? The spacing and arrangement of the webs is just as important as the panel thickness. Perhaps even more important. That's why they are called stiffeners. I find it easier to modify stiffener size and arrangement than to play with laminates. You can fine tune stiffening much easier than laminates or cores.

    This is all basic engineering section modulus/moment of inertia stuff. This is easier to understand with an isotropic material such as steel but it works the same with FRP. In general increasing the number of stiffeners and thereby reducing the thickness of the panel will reduce the weight of the overall structure for the same strength/stiffness.

    Increasing the core thickness will greatly increase the stiffness because you are increasing the distance to the neutral axis. Increasing the skin thickness will also increase the stiffness but far less than increasing the core thickness as you are not moving as far away from the neutral axis. Adding one inch of core thickness will have a similar effect on the stiffness as adding one inch of skin thickness, but you will add substantially more weight. I think I'm becoming more confusing instead of helping so I'll stop.
     
  10. Ismotorsport
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 89
    Likes: 7, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 53
    Location: California

    Ismotorsport Junior Member

    [​IMG]

    Structural grid rendering for design...there may be the need to add an additional ring frame between first two bulkheads either side as well as in galley/salon of each hull as well (based on core thickness and laminates)?
     
  11. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,075
    Likes: 357, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    There are quite big panes (seen on sides), I believe those will not comply to ISO12215-5. This is sample of structural arrangement for our 60' that shows structural elements in the hulls.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Ismotorsport
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 89
    Likes: 7, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 53
    Location: California

    Ismotorsport Junior Member

    Alik,
    Does look like your 60 has quite a bit more structure though I can't tell that well precisely from the image. What is lightship displacement for that design? And what size core? If you don't mind sharing...
     
  13. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,075
    Likes: 357, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    This boat is 17.3t lightship (this includes tender, jetski, some teak finish, etc.) and 23.2t fully loaded. Structure itself is 9t including accommodation bulkheads and built-in furniture. Core is H130, H100 and H80 25 and 19mm depending on hull area.

    What I see from Your sketch, side panels will not comply unless You have unusually thick core.

    You should run full structural analysis and obtain proper structural plans and lamination schedule; asking advice on forum has no meaning.
     
  14. DGreenwood
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 722
    Likes: 40, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 507
    Location: New York

    DGreenwood Senior Member

    C'mon guys! Isn't it obvious that there is no designer. This guy drew this boat himself on a yacht design software package. Obviously he has some experience with design software but no boat design experience. He went at the whole thing *** backwards and is trying get enough info to reverse design and salvage his drawings. I'm being blunt her but seriously...it seems so clear. Any way you look at it it is a disaster in the making.
     
    1 person likes this.

  15. Ismotorsport
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 89
    Likes: 7, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 53
    Location: California

    Ismotorsport Junior Member

    Wow, this is a rough crowd tonight....
    First of I know didly squat about CAD or any design software. These are just screen shots of design work that I PAID $$ for that I can pull up using my rhino viewer on iPad. It's true that I did not walk into a design firm in the normal fashion and have the work done... Duh!! Would I be here asking advice if I had... So we are left with fact that I have interesting but incomplete build plan that I am looking for advice and assistance with.
    Sad to see that not everyone is willing to help.

    Thanks for the info on your 60 ft cat Alik... Now I can run off and start my build tomorrow... (insert sarcasm here)... Come on?? Is that what you really think...

    This boat was designed at 20,000 lightship... Is 3/4 divinycell H80 and H100 really too thin? With skins of 30-34 oz each side?
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.