Good reasons NOT to design

[Tridente YD]

I Think we need to encourage ALL the people to design. Design is like paint. Is ''use'' the head. And is a good thing too. (Boths)

Another thing is build our own design/boat. I think is a very good thing too. I like this type of man. I like the man that have the will/abilities/courage to start and bring to good end this enterprise.

Regarding the issue ''give or not information''. I think that we need to share our knowledge. That make ''worth'' our knowledge and at the same time give some advise about the dangerous situation of sailing itself too.

[terhohalme]

Richard,

Mistakes lead to experience. There is no other way, don't funk. Building and sailing your own designs (mistakes?) is the shortest way to good design practice.

Terho

[DungBeetle]

5,200 people in the United States die each year from food poisoning
280 000 adult deaths in the United States each year are attributable to obesity.
I do not have the right to endanger the lives of my family and friends by cooking for them.
We should leave it to the professionals.


like,

Ronald and the Colonel.

Compare these guys to my grandmother (non-professional).

you see, there are SECRETS! 11 different herbs and spices, which you or I CAN'T replicate, no matter how much we try, we will FAIL.

The 17 year olds who work for them LOVE their jobs, and thats why every product tastes so good, because it's made with LOVE.


I admit I've recently pushed the boundaries; i added WAY too much fresh basil and went completely irresponsible on the garlic on my latest Thai green curry.

Ronald or the colonel would NEVER have done that.



Boating deaths across the USA - 700 every year
Those most likely to die in a boating accident on the water are:
* Married men
* On a fishing trip or leisure cruise;
* In a dinghy
* Either cruising or drifting
* Operating in calm or smooth sea conditions
* Consuming alcohol
* Operating on inland or enclosed waters.

even I can draw the correct conclusions from these alarming statistics.

DON'T! use the tender in perfectly calm conditions on protected waterways;
it's a sure fire way to DIE!!







just remember; businesses love you. and they care. deeply. about the lives of you (personally), and your family.

they wouldn't just sell you any old **** in their products, and convince you by science that it's yummy chocolate, just to get a dollar off you. would they?

[Richard Atkin]

lol. great reply. However..... a lot of people eat food...not as many people use boats, and of the ones that do, most probably sail/motor in sheltered waters So it's a percentage thing. Nothing you have said would indicate that open sea cruising is not dangerous. eg....if only 3 people have ever gone open sea cruising, and only 2 of them died.....then you could say that only 2 people have ever died from open sea cruising.
I'm too lazy to work out the proper statistics. I'd rather just take the risk.

[masalai]

Then be prepared with hefty indemnity insurance. Richard this is significant for you in the light of the recent search. Talks are afoot to charge the owner/captain for any search and rescue operations. Maintain a SAR watch so no un-necessary search is initiated because someone was expecting your boat and it did not arrive.

There are some who are too arrogant/dumb/stupid to acknowledge they should not design &/or build. By progressing with their foolish dream place the rescue services at risk of loosing their lives. In Australia many of the rescue services are VOLUNTEERS.

It is generally a "free" world, if you are determined to take extreme and stupid risks do not be the cause of someone else's death because they tried to save your stupid life. Be responsible in your actions and consider others that may be affected by your actions.

[Fanie]

If you are going to design or make anything for that matter, not only a boat, you better do some research, and enough research, so that the little you know isn't just enough to be a danger to yourself or anyone else.

When you finally take the step, there are rules in all kinds of things, you have to make sure you have the right safety measures. On land it's ie. helmets and clothing. On the water other things apply. I have taken people off the dam that was barely floating on faith, no life jackets, no floatation built in the boat, too much weight in the boat. How bloody stupid can people be. I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't swim either.

I'm all for designing new (and sometimes rediculous ) things. If you do something silly like putting the outboard on the planing boat's nose and you've been explained to why it won't and cannot work but you do it anyway, then nobody can help you. I always say there are things money just cannot buy and common good sense is one of those things.

There are many well thought through new things seeing the light every day by someone who had the guts to spend time, money, sweat to try something out. This is the act that makes it possible for everyone else to benefit from it.

[masalai]

Seasons Greetings Fanie, I tried to give you some more brownie points, but the system said I had to spread my praises around elsewhere first. Consider yourself with another brownie point!

See these! and weep

Metal Multihull Cruiser - Seeking Input
Multihull cruiser - comments requested

[OldYachtie]

Unfortunately, a lot of people who want to design their own boats want to sail them across oceans, yet do not know that the ocean is dangerous and that yacht design is actually very complicated. Well, yacht design is complicated, and needs a lot of study-that is, you are ready to think about it after you have read half a dozen or so textbooks on the subject. If you are too lazy to do that, and think that posters on this forum can tell you everything you need to know a few paragraphs, you don't deserve a respectful response, IMHO. At a bare minimum, nobody should consider designing a boat until they have thoroughly digested "Skene's Elements of Yacht Design," which is a pretty basic primer compared to, say "Yacht Design," by Larsson and Eliasson.

Originally Posted by terhohalme

Richard,

Mistakes lead to experience. There is no other way, don't funk. Building and sailing your own designs (mistakes?) is the shortest way to good design practice.

Terho

[kengrome]

At a bare minimum, nobody should consider designing a boat until they have thoroughly digested "Skene's Elements of Yacht Design" ...

My suggested correction, because many small boats can be designed to work just fine without this:

At a bare minimum, nobody should consider designing a relatively large boat, especially a boat for ocean crossings, until they have thoroughly digested "Skene's Elements of Yacht Design" ...

[terhohalme]

OldYachtie,

I do agree, yacht design is very complicated, that's why building your own designs help a lot.

Fortunately, a lot of people who want to design their own boats and want to sail them across oceans, never do that.


Terho,
B.Eng. Yacht manufacturing and yacht designer.

[Richard Atkin]

My apparent arrogance and over-confidence with putting other people's lives at risk, comes from the fact that I do have common sense (like most amateur boat designers?)
My common sense stops me from ignoring important advice. I understand the limits of my knowledge. By coming on to this forum, I am not designing the boat alone. In fact, it would be fair to say that most of my future boat has been designed by others. I will not be satisfied with my boat design until I am sure, and others with more experience are sure that it is a safe design.

If you sail a boat in the open sea....then you take a risk....like driving a car.
Everyone deserves respect, even when their ideas are stupid, or even when they ignore 'good' advice.

Richard

[tinhorn]

Wonderful thread!

I'm one of those newbies who wasn't raised around boats, but want something small that isn't (to my knowledge) available on the market, even in plans form. And yup, compared to homebuilt airplanes, I presumed boats - which have been around for thousands of years - were pretty simple devices. Many hours of lurking here (and following dozens of links) have convinced me otherwise, and I'm very grateful for the eye-opening I'm receiving. I'm almost convinced I should take the Westlake course just for my simple project!

Basic info isn't all that easy to find. It took me forever to find a weight and balance calculation. I'm still not sure I have a grasp of all the forces to be reconned with, particularly with different hull types. After spending a cross-country flight reading an older yacht design book I found in a New England bookstore, I hit the internet and was led to this forum by Solomon Grundy's human-power project.

Having spent the last few years building up a small business offering services and support to computer users in a narrow field of interest, I shouldn't be surprised to discover that boat design is much more complicated than I first thought, much like graphics and PDFs seem more complicated than necessary to my clients. Hell, they used to publish two-page boat plans in Popular Mechanics Magazine! How hard can it be?!

My hat is off to you professionals who allow us noobs to eavesdrop and add to our arsenal of knowledge. When I think I've perfected my one-man, pedal-powered, M-hull, Kort-nozzled, composite design, do ya mind if I run it past you guys for feedback?

[Fanie]

Hi Tinhorn

but want something small

Whenever I get asked the question 'what size boat must I get ?' my answer is always - get the biggest boat of whichever type it is that you want you can handle. If you don't know, get to go on some boats. In my 25 years of powerboating I've gone from small to larger, and lately I wish my boat would grow to double the size, just don't know what to feed it Even too large on land is always too small on the water unless you're going to sit this thing in the pool only, when it just fit in it's the best size

[masalai]

Hi tinhorn, Welcome to the frey. Lots of posts/threads have serious and valid/useful content.

Sometimes, as with most human nature & things, comment becomes somewhat rabid &/or off topic.

Don't ignore the flippant threads like The Drivel thread etc for a bit of light relief and an opportunity to recover/'vent the spleen' as appropriate.

may you have fair weather & calm seas as needed.

[Petros]

HI Tinhorn,

boats can be simple devices, I have built nine of them, not one with a motor. All are fairly simple designs, some are sail powered some are paddle or oar powered. It is only the imagination and inventiveness of designers and builders that makes them complicated. I like building them as much as I like using them, when they are small the come together faster, cost less and take less room to store (and cost less to store and maintain too). You want simple, go check out the Puddle Duck racers!

If you just want to get started with a simple project, then yes, build one from the plans in the old Popular Mechanics or Mechanix Illustrated magazine (they are available on the internet for free, search for "free boat plans"). You can also alter these simple plans to suit your desires if they are not exactly what you want, I would not suggest designing from scratch for your first project.

Building a simple canoe, kayak, outboard or small sailboat from existing plans should go fast and give you some experience. So when you move on to a larger project you will have a better idea of what you like, what materials you like working with, required tools, etc. Smaller projects that come together faster are a lot more satisfying I think because it does not drag on for months and years, physically, financially and emotionally exhausting all your resources. You also do not risk the time and money should you find you do not really want to continue with it after you are part way into it. You can start small and simple, and then work up to larger projects as you gain experience, confidence and skill.

Good luck.