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  #61  
Old 01-21-2014, 02:10 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.151 View Post
Just a lovely boat -- interesting observations by Gabart about how easy the boat was to sail.

Is not the tip being out of the water just a reflection of the amount of (excess) lift that would be available if the foil were fully immersed (for the current conditions)? (Once the boat got flying anyway.)

Seems like that's the 'balance of forces' condition. Or am I missing something on your reasoning?
Wouldn't that also be expected for a boat designed to fly in light air?
================
Thats exactly what it is ,Tom. Seen frequently on all the AC 72's as well. Since the Flying Phantom has a really cool method of adjusting daggerboard rake(foil angle of incidence), it will probably be important for racing crews to learn how to keep the tip submerged based on what Tom says below in post 49 of the "Sailing Foiler Design: Foil Assist and Full Flying", in the Aero-Hydro Forum here. Whether it's light air or not probably could tend to exacerbate the problem because the tendency would be to set a greater angle of incidence to enable lift off at slower speeds. Foil adjustment is going to be important in racing these boats-especially if Tom is right -which he probably is : (highlighted by dl)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tspeer View Post
This is false. The curved part of the vertical foil produces essentially the same lift as it rises. This is necessary to counter the side force from the sail rig, which does not change as the height changes.

Because the horizontal lift is constant but the vertical area is reduced as the boat rises, the leeway angle increases. It is the coupling of leeway with heave that is exploited by the L foil to provide vertical static stability.

The dihedral angle of the horizontal wing is set so that the angle of attack of the wing is reduced as the leeway angle increases. This satisfies the static stability condition that the vertical lift decrease as the heave increases.

Because the same horizontal lift is produced over a reduced vertical span, the sideways wash in the wake is also greater and the trailing vortices are more intense. This causes a coupling with the horizontal wing that increases the vertical lift, because the horizontal wing acts as a winglet for the vertical part of the foil (and vice versa). The dihedral angle required for vertical stability is greater than what one might expect by looking at the wing alone because it must overcome this wake-coupled influence. The result is there is a range of dihedral angles that provide positive vertical stability and a range of dihedral angles that are destabilizing in heave because of the coupling with the shed vorticity of the vertical part of the foil.

Although there are times when the foil tip has broached the surface, this is not the normal mechanism for providing heave stability in L foils. The best performance is obtained with the hull just above the wavetops and the wing submerged well below the surface. The leeway-modulated heave stability is still effective in this condition, and the induced drag is minimized.Canting the foil inboard has the effect of increasing the dihedral angle of the wing, which enhances the heave stability. The vertical lift is spread over a greater span because the curved part of the foil is oriented to provide more vertical component of the force. This reduces the induced drag due to the vertical force. However, the induced drag of the horizontal force would be increased, so cant is typically used off the wind when the side force from the rig is less and the side force produced by the foils is correspondingly less. The foils still have to support the weight of the boat, so the vertical force is not lessened, but the relative proportions of vertical and horizontal force are changed, making the canted foil better suited to the operating condition. Cant allows the leeway-modulated heave stability to be increased an an acceptable penalty in the induced drag because of the lower side force and the higher speeds, which also reduce induced drag.

Upwind, the foils are canted to their vertical position to minimize the induced drag from the high side force and reduced speeds. The reduction in horizontal wing dihedral angle with vertical cant impacts the leeway-modulated heave stability, which is why it is much more difficult to achieve stable flight upwind than downwind. The crew had to be more active in trimming the wing and foil to deal with the reduction in natural heave stability, which was very hard on the grinders when flyng upwind.

Whether canted or upright, the mechanism for providing natural heave stability was still the coupling between heave and leeway, which led to a reduction in vertical lift because of the designed-in coupling between leeway and vertical lift by virtue of the wing dihedral. Reduction in horizontal/vertical-lifting area due to the foil tip broaching the surface was not part of this primary source of heave stability. Allowing the tip to broach the surface had big penalties in terms of induced drag and increased leeway due to insufficient vertical span.
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  #62  
Old 01-31-2014, 08:20 AM
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Orders are up to at least 30......
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  #63  
Old 01-31-2014, 08:27 AM
Baltic Bandit Baltic Bandit is offline
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ok one world wide starting line
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  #64  
Old 03-11-2014, 11:42 AM
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Here's a detail shot of the rake adjustment(angle of incidence adjustment) on the Flying Phantom:
more here: http://www.gizmag.com/flying-phantom...143/pictures#1

click--
Attached Thumbnails
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  #65  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:24 PM
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A nice little tidbit in the April issue of Seahorse magazine: Guillaume Verdier
designed the foils for the Phantom and Martin Fischer designed the hulls.
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  #66  
Old 03-23-2014, 06:53 PM
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An article and video posted on catsailingnews shows the FP in action against F18's looks pretty impressive:

http://www.catsailingnews.com/2014/0...irst-race.html
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  #67  
Old 03-23-2014, 06:59 PM
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Thanks Corley-heres the video:
http://vimeo.com/89758333#at=0
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  #68  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:44 AM
gypsy28 gypsy28 is offline
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Love it! Just absolutely walks away from the "regular" F18s I WANT ONE
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  #69  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:24 AM
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...

On the Saturday they had a 30 mile up-an-down the coast between Saint-Quay and Brehat, followed Sunday by two races of 15nm and 20nm, the yellow and blue lines shown on this map:




The wind was from the Northwest "12-18 knots Saturday, a little less Sunday".

The Flying Phantom had some kind of repairs needed Saturday evening, and managed to get an OCS in the third race - notice the video 'forgot' to show the start. Pretty brilliant to get an OCS in a 20 mile long distance race... but their consolation was that they then sailed the 20 nm in 76 minutes and they were able to fly all the way, so the wind shifted fortuitously. The flyers were last in their class of 3 boats on corrected time. There were 7 Formula 18's in their own class.

Results

Newspaper article


...

There's a fuller and more accurate description of the 3 races on Catsailingnews.com
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  #70  
Old 04-03-2014, 06:27 AM
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From the Phantom International newsletter:

Philippe Presti:
“The purpose of my visit in Brittany was to try the Flying Phantom. You saw with the last America’s Cup we started to foil upwind and downwind and now we want to explore foiling with small boats. We are thinking it will be very good for the design of our future Cup boat.
Both sailing days were great and good sailing sessions. With up to 20 knots of breeze and swell, it was really enjoyable, of course in addition the business side of it, it’s a lot a lot of fun. In my career, I’ve started with very slow boats with the Finn dinghy and I really enjoy the changes. Sailing is a world where when you change boat you change world and I really enjoy to discover new stuff and foiling is really exciting.
This was one of the most exciting days sailing a boat I have had for a while.
The idea of buying boats for Oracle Team USA would be to train our sailors to fly; at the moment we have the big boat and we can fly on the AC72, but it is extremely hard to handle it term of logistics.
Onboard people are the helmsman, trimmers and others grinders but not all of them are really involved in the flying and in the way of foiling the boat. So the idea of sailing these small boats will be to help the guys to understand physically what is needed to fly in a stable way and this is why we want to use this boat as one of our training platforms. I believe we will learn a lot of things in terms of hydrodynamics and this could change our thinking about the big boat. The learning curve is so steep we are just at the beginning of the foiling and every month we are discovering new ideas or behavior so the Flying Phantom will help us to understand how to sail the big one.”
Attached Thumbnails
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  #71  
Old 04-29-2014, 08:36 AM
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From the Phantom International newsletter:
Two times Olympic Gold Medalists and members of the Red Bull Sailing Team (Extreme 40) , Roman Hagara and Hans Peter Steinacher came to Brittany, St Lunaire, birthplace of Phantom International, for two days of epic sailing.

The 2 world-renowned sailors and Red Bull Youth America’s Cup Sport Directors enjoyed both sportive conditions with a strong off shore breeze and gusts of up to 25 knots on the first day followed by calmer weather with moderate sea on the second day, which still gave them the chance of experiencing high speed foiling.

Roman Hagara and Hans Peter Steinacher were delighted to experience first hand the first foiling production catamaran, which gave them unique and new sensations as well as giving them the opportunity to sail on one of France’s most beautiful bay in Brittany. The Austrian duo was able to start flying at 6.5 knots winds and triple the wind speed, just after a few minutes onboard, the Flying Phantom is capable of fully foiling above water in a very steady manner even in moderate sea.

From May 1 to 4 Hagara/Steinacher will participate with their Extreme 40 Catamaran at Act 3 of the Extreme Sailing Series in China’s Qingdao. “The Flying Phantom test session was a perfect training for the upcoming Extreme Sailing Series Event in China next week. Our goal is to finish on the podium in Qingdao”, said Red Bull Sailing Skipper Roman Hagara.

With 40 boats all ready sold to customers all around the world, Phantom International is looking forwards to welcome other sailing stars during the next few weeks whilst preparing for their next big event the Eurocat Long Distance Race in Carnac, France.
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  #72  
Old 05-04-2014, 08:30 AM
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Philippe Presti, Oracle Team Coach interview:
http://www.vsail.info/2014/05/03/phi...to-vsail-info/
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  #73  
Old 05-09-2014, 09:35 AM
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from the Phantom International newsletter:

THE FLYING PHANTOM BREAKS EUROCAT’S LONG DISTANCE RACE RECORD

http://www.phantom-international.com...e-race-record/
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  #74  
Old 05-12-2014, 08:58 PM
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Great video from catsailingnews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Pw8wn524U
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  #75  
Old 05-13-2014, 08:24 AM
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Video from catsailing news of Nathan Outeridge flying:
Excerpt of video commentary by Catsailing News-more here- http://www.catsailingnews.com/2014/0...e-on.html#more

The first part of video shows Nathan out of the box first helm ride on the Flying Phantom. The second part was shoot at the end of the day, Outteridge sailing with a youth from the RSBC.
The video shows how easy is to foil in those specific conditions, check the end and how he is just cruising. After that ride I got on board to crew for him. Some minutes to adjust and later it was the same relaxed ride, I even left the mainsheet at ease for moments. Once the boats sets in trim, the word to describe the ride is
almost "Auto Flight" mode.

Conditions were around 8-9knots in the afternoon, lots of patches, my ride was with even less wind than the footage above.
The FP starts foiling in the same range when the F18s start to lift one hull with Spi in +6-7knots, that was the feeling I got from the power needed. And we were foiling without Spi. The RSBC kids also got to helm
the boat as Henry did past week, and they were foiling easily in this range of wind.

With more wind early in the day, Nathan worked a little bit harder as more active trim was needed by the helm with the traveler sheet to flat the boat. The feedback I got from him is that the FP has a super smooth ride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p4mcyQmIZ4
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