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  #16  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:39 PM
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Corley Corley is offline
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There are a few photos up on catsailingnews FB page of the Phantom F18 and Hydros C Class foils from the Salon Nautique International show in Paris.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...9736304&type=1
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2013, 05:18 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Flying Phantom

Imagine: the first production catamaran full flying foiler in the history of mankind! So very cool.......
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2013, 01:46 PM
Baltic Bandit Baltic Bandit is offline
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And what is it that makes it a "production catamaran"? Cuz I've just talked been to their booth at the Paris Boat Show - and while the boat is cool and has some nice concepts in it, I didn't see a lot of folks lining up to buy it And until they actually make a production run of it, its still basically a custom production boat.
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  #19  
Old 12-12-2013, 02:50 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Flying Phantom

Here's a video (in French) from the Paris show. The price appears to be about $43,700-a "normal" F-18 is in the range of 24-28 grand, but this boat is the fastest cat under 20'(maybe under 24') and doesn't sit in the water-it flys.(about 36 grand US minus tax)
And it is a great first-the FIRST full flying hydrofoil equipped sailing catamaran to be put into production, the FIRST production hydrofoil equipped sailing cat to use a variation on the TNZ foil system with a single main foil-the same foil system used by Groupama in the Little America's Cup. The First "trickle down" from the foil development done for the 34th America's Cup to be offered to the masses. You can buy it now! I ordered mine today but the damn card was declined---oh well.
UPDATE-what a cool foil angle of incidence(rake) control! (see the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vxxU...4WY_G8fXpA-JHw
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  #20  
Old 12-13-2013, 01:07 AM
Baltic Bandit Baltic Bandit is offline
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Well Doug, I've been to their booth at the show. Its a clever boat, but I don't really think its a "production" boat. Too many small fiddly bits to really allow it to be built affordably in "production. For example the detail they have on the AoA of the foil is not something that will be easily built.

And while $44k is very pricey I don't think its going to be high enough to actually get the boat into production.

He hopes for it to be a one design like the F18 but right now they only have one set of molds. so they simply cannot grow the class all that fast.

Its a cool boat, but "production"? Not even close
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  #21  
Old 12-13-2013, 09:56 AM
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Flying Phantom

According to Macca(GC32) the pre-orders on the Flying Phantom are significantly ahead of where orders were for the Nacra 20 at this point. He says 13 of the boats were sold at the Paris show....
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Last edited by Doug Lord : 12-17-2013 at 09:14 AM.
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  #22  
Old 12-13-2013, 11:14 AM
Baltic Bandit Baltic Bandit is offline
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"At this point".... IE 3 mos after the first sail of the prototype... OKEY DOKEY.
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  #23  
Old 12-17-2013, 02:02 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Flying Phantom

Excerpt from the front page story on SA by Ryan Breymaier on the Phantom: ( http://www.sailinganarchy.com )

Unlike the Oracle, ETNZ, or Team Hydros boats there is no cant adjustment for the boat (inboard/outboard foil movement); the Phantom only allows fore/aft rake adjustment with an endlesss string/worm gear moving the upper foil and thereby changing AoA on the main foil. This sets the median speed of the boat and to some extent, the ride height, with the boat self-levelling as more of the foil comes out of the water. In a great innovation and something we saw on the gorgeous Groupama C boat, the weather board is lifted not by a block and tackle, but by the weight of the crew as he or she wires up on the new tack. Anyone who’s pulled up loaded boards knows this is a huge labor saver, and these boards are around 12 kg of pure carbon!

The boat can be beach launched on a non-surf beach(not a Flying Phantom qualification-just mine) using basically the same kind of dolly other cats use. At this point the top speed of the boat is just 3 knots short of the top speed recorded by a Moth(after 14 years development!)-and will surely increase over time though not as much as the Moth has because this boat is a strict one design.
Ease of launching is a huge plus compared with having to wade the boat out on its side like a Moth. The boat has automatic altitude control* within a given speed range as well as the ability to adjust the angle of incidence of the single main foil. Since the boat is a cat you can simply ease the sheets to take a break and catch your breath! Two people(or three) can enjoy the boat together as they learn what makes it tick. Moth skippers frequently take a friend out with them-if it can be done with such a difficult boat to sail-it can certainly be done with a foiling cat.
It's the coolest new under 20' multi to hit the water in a long time!
----
* from Ryan's front page piece:
Unlike the Oracle, ETNZ, or Team Hydros boats there is no cant adjustment for the boat (inboard/outboard foil movement); the Phantom only allows fore/aft rake adjustment with an endlesss string/worm gear moving the upper foil and thereby changing AoA on the main foil. This sets the median speed of the boat and to some extent, the ride height, with the boat self-levelling as more of the foil comes out of the water.
Attached Thumbnails
Flying Phantom F 18 Catamaran-moth-worlds-2013-kruesi-ride.jpg  
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Last edited by Doug Lord : 12-19-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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  #24  
Old 12-17-2013, 03:14 PM
Baltic Bandit Baltic Bandit is offline
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13 boats a the huge Paris boatshow. a show where the French announced a foiling catamaran AC challenge. Where there were half-a-dozen rotomolded catas for sale in the othe booths. Sorry that's just not that impressive.

Beach launched on a non-surf beach - which means no real beach that has any sort of wind. The diff with other cats is that you can bring them in close enough to shore that you can pull the boat up onto the dolly and if a small wave bottoms the hull out its not a crisis...

Nor does the boat have "automatic altitude control" - it runs a very conservative dihedral (closed J) and its altitude control is largely limited to AoA adjustment

And the idea of "enjoying the boat together as they learn what makes it tick" just shows an ignorance of how high performance boats work
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  #25  
Old 12-18-2013, 10:22 AM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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I wrote to Alex Udin, developer of the Flying Phantom and asked him about:
1) sailing with three people for fun-he said it could be done easily..
2) using a dolly for beach launching-he said no problem-they use a standard Tornado "trolley".
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  #26  
Old 12-18-2013, 11:22 AM
Baltic Bandit Baltic Bandit is offline
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Yes Doug you can sail any catamaran with 3 people. but that means the board has to generate roughly 20% more lift

And sure you use a standard tornado trolley. That's not the problem. Did you read what was written? that you can ONLY launch from a non-surf beach. IOW a beach that only has very small waves on it.

IOW a beach that does not have much wind on it UNLESS it is a special beach like the one where SailRocket sailed.

I suspect you've never tried to launch a high performance cat in even moderate waves, or you would not be saying this sort of stuff.
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  #27  
Old 12-18-2013, 03:00 PM
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Flying Phantom

I wrote to Alex again about launching the Flying Phantom off a beach into surf like other beach cats. He said no problem particularly with the cassette rudders that allow steering when other rudder types don't work too well.
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  #28  
Old 12-18-2013, 09:51 PM
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This has gotta be the coolest beach cat ever! If I had the cash I'd have one in a heart beat.

Now just gotta figure out how to add foils to my Nacra 5.8.......Ideas anyone
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  #29  
Old 12-19-2013, 03:37 AM
Baltic Bandit Baltic Bandit is offline
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Except its not a beach cat. And the instructions from the builder explicitly say not to launch from a surf beech. Seriously Doug, you are never going to buy one of these. Let Alex build his fleet
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  #30  
Old 12-19-2013, 07:28 AM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Flying Phantom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltic Bandit View Post
Except its not a beach cat. And the instructions from the builder explicitly say not to launch from a surf beech. Seriously Doug, you are never going to buy one of these. Let Alex build his fleet
====================
Thats absolutely FALSE: in a previous post it was my speculation that used the term "non-surf beach". Thats why I wrote to Alex Udin, the developer of the Flying Phantom, who said launchung thru the surf was perfectly ok. In other words this boat is capable of anything any other beachcat is and so much more!

read posts 23 and 27
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