Feasibility of building a multihull and cruising the tropics

Some years ago, I fell over an ad for a Nichols 36 that was actually free. Of course it had a history - literally a drug runner that was impounded by Customs, onsold to a pair of dreamers who eventually abandoned it.

I stripped some useable gear and sold it for a few hundred dollars to a young couple who fixed a couple of broken frames and some rotted ply, painted it, added second hand sails and took off for the barrier reef. As I recall, they had some minor sailing experience but were keen, practical and prepared to "have a go"

In all seriousness, keep looking and you will find something that works for you, even if is to be traded later for something better. There are numerous vessels with good pedigrees just swinging on moorings and some work within the ability of the average person can transform these into real sailing boats. Conversely, having built three boats and now on the fourth, I would suggest you only do this if you literally cannot find anything suitable to repair - the costs are very difficult to estimate, because it is virtually impossible to predict everything. My last cruising cat, for example, started with a budget of $A80k and ended up at over $A120 and still was not really complete for offshore sailing.

As pointed out by others, many builders abandon the project and maybe one of these might suit you and if you can do the necessary work to complete it, this can be a cheap way to start. But beware, if the hulls have been built, you are only about one-third of the way to completion and possibly less than that towards the final cost

Re experience, keep talking to real sailors, not the dreamers. There are too many "experts" around and these are mostly to be avoided. Be a deckhand on a cruising boat whenever possible - look in the "crew wanted" ads. If you have a quick mind and are prepared to learn this will be the best way to determine what works and what does not.

Cheers

Alan

 

Several things about that. One is, if you are someone who built already, you at least know what it is like, the advice for that kind of person is different, than the general odds for someone who is a newbie.

Second, I set aside people who are real doers. Whatever stripe, whether trademen, or whatever. They know from other experience what it means to organize a project and keep at it until it is done without any escapism along the way. But that personality type seems increasingly rare, and was always at a premium. I was talking to a relative recently who was saying that when he was a kid his dad made him hand dig their basement and septic field, and that these days he has a hard time finding anyone to work with him who is able to keep at the job. I would give him a pretty good chance.

Third, you like to design stuff, as do I. My very first boat back in the late 70s was a tandem canoe that I designed and lofted. I design a lot more projects than I build, but every now and again, I want to see it in the flesh, and that can push me ahead. I like to build also, though not 100% of the tasks.

fourth, self designed stuff is way easier to build than plans. I won`t get into it, but I find such project half the work and worry, other than the ultimate success worry, but so far so good.

Fifth, like you, my projects are small and relatively simple. 40 foot plus liveaboard cats, are huge projects that many seem interested in.

 

I'm with you on everything but this. It's lots easier to build from plans, for most folks, and me in particular. When I was building Slider, I wrestled with difficult decisions every day. I had to make a lot of decisions before I cut the first piece of wood, and it just got worse, and the choices more subtle as I went along. Which, I guess, is why it took me 19 months to build a 16 foot boat to a workboat standard. In my defense, it's a big somewhat complicated 16' boat, but still....

 

That's the opposite of my experience which was that I knew what I wanted for the most part, and that list did not include any stuff I wasn't comited to; materials I didn't know where to source; processes I didn't know how to do; stuff on the plans that wasn't clear, or missing information, since it was all in my head... The whole thing was pretty linear. That doesn't mean there were no glitches, a motor mount that was too high, mostly my knowledge of motors.

For instance when I built my KHSD, Kurt's office was right near Fisheries Supply a huge chandlery with a discount, System3, and Boeing surplus was in the area. My local town had nothing comparatively. But it is a big town so getting stuff can be an all day drive and a day taken off work. So getting some stuff was a real trial. I got some of it on a business trip to Seattle! Comparatively, this summer I am building an extra daggerboard for that boat. It's plywood, the main spar is 2x and the cord is reinforced with pultruded glass from the local hardware. Now the fact I could actually source that stuff had something to do with the board design. And I am sure the same is true for Kurt. He designed around stuff that was easy for him to get, and probably doesn't understand why I had problems.

 

I guess it very much depends on personality. For me it seems easier to realize my own dream than someone else's. The decisions in build time are easier to make, as I don't have to wonder why a particular solution is designed that way, and whether it have a purpose I cannot catch. Also in design time I was contemplating enough on the ways to build it.
I am a dreamer type. I enjoy designing, but especially bad in hand work. So when I design for myself, I make a point to come out with something which does not require much precision. A stock plan may or may not keep it in as much priority.

 

I'm at anchor sailing off to B.C. for a month so here is to sailing. I like to design my own solutions because it is fun but can work equally well from other peoples plans. When you work something out for yourself often a napkin sketch can do but it is good practice to formalize things. It is a lot cheaper to build it with pencil and paper (I'm old fashioned) first.

 

My experience says that both Ray and Thom are right from two different perspectives. However, as Thom says:

When I built my first boat back in the 70's I had only some general woodworking experience and no power tools. The design was a Sam Rabl "Picaroon" a delightful litle crusier and I can only wish I had the knowledge I have now to avoid making so many silly mistakes - like using proper strip planking with cedar/epoxy and NOT sheathing with polyester/glass. Many years later, my third and biggest project was a 30' cruising catamaran for which I purchased the plans and this is where Thom's argument reinforces the need for practical experience over simplistic trust in the designer.

Without knocking this particular designer, because there is no question that many others are worse, there were numerous cases of it being impossible to build a component as designed. Also, some design elements were just plain silly, like the curve of the forward end of the cabin that would have required a contortionist to get in or out of the berths, or the curve of the aft beam that would have required an expensive custom-made traveller instead of an off-the-shelf version, or the doghouse plans that never arrived.

The answer of course was to redesign these (relatively minor) items oneself without affecting the excellence of the designer's hulls and reinforcing structures, also to find really competent trades support to fabricate the steelwork, rig, electrical systems etc. However, without practical building and project management experience this could have delivered a bad result and this is precisely why good judgement and experience will always prevail.

None of these comments are intended to flatter me, because I freely admit to making stupid errors and having to re-do things that should have been done right the first time. I do, however, strongly recommend the "have a go" philosophy if it is based on practicality and the judgement to separate good advice from bad.

Alan

 

You know, I have to say that I think ergonomic sanity is one of those things that don't get enough attention from designers. I've been wrestling with this lately, because I'm trying to get reasonably comfortable (microcruiser scale) accomodations into a 20 foot cat. It's tough but interesting work.

Anyway, some elements of human comfort should not be compromised. If it seems necessary to compromise things like bunk width and length, sitting headroom, and so forth, maybe the designer is trying to do too much with too little.

 

I fear this thread is getting away from where "Skint-for-life" started it, but picking up where Ray left off in the last post, it may be interesting to see what can be squeezed into a small boat using some innovation and without making the whole thing ridiculous.

The attached sketch shows the planned interior of the 6.2 metre hybrid now under construction and building "right way up" has helped greatly in ensuring the space allocation is practical. Of course there must be compromises. Headroom is sitting only except for the area immediately between the nav and galley areas where a scissor hatch gives extra height to the cabin. Getting into the double berth will be interesting but OK. The fridge (an Engel 30 litre) slides out from under the berth for access. Not shown in the sketch is a small stern arch to carry a pair of 40 W solar panels, feeding the controller and a 100 AH sealed deep cycle battery, the latter below the berth to keep the weight low. A fresh water tank will be epoxied into the space below the cabin sole.

I do anticipate yells of derision from the experts, but please remember this is a cruising boat. I have no interest in racing whatsoever and if the goodies chop off a few knots, so be it.

Cheers, Alan

 

You need:

A comfortable chair,
A comfortable bed,
A private corner for the head,
A well stocked galley for your health,
And a hole in the water for your wealth.

 

Catamarans

Hi, think you're probably right to choose a catamaran, I've had cats and a tri and spent 11 years living aboard and cruising 40 foot monohull. I would agree with the advice of many others, get more hours, days, weeks in under sail. Also it seems you have sufficient financial muscle to be able to choose something near what you want, rather than compromising and getting what you can afford. Of course, any boat is by nature a compromise of many factors, not least a catamaran.
You must decide whether part of the adventure you seek is the satisfaction of building your own boat and sailing it, or whether what you want is just to cruise. If what you want is to sail, then forget building your own, if I count all the big and little boats I've built, the next one will be number 84. It's definately cheaper and quicker to buy a good second hand, then make such adjustments as necessary to suit your personal needs, but, be very careful, have a well trusted friend with knowledge and experience and an odjective eye to advize you, or a trusted professional boatbuilder or marine surveyor.
My advice on cats is to avoid rigid structures where the hulls are locked together by a huge caravan structure on the bridge deck. This means most production plastic cats.
I see mention of an Iroquois, forget it, you need something as near uncapsizable as possible, iroquois go fast but have been known to capsize.
2 designers worth looking at are Richard Woods and James wharram. From what I understand of your needs I would recommend a Wharram Tiki 38. Build it yourselves or find a good used one, or a good boatbuilder to do a hulls and deck for you then finish it off yourselves. Whatever, have fun, you can realize you dreams, just make sure you have the right dream!!

 

"My advice on cats is to avoid rigid structures where the hulls are locked together by a huge caravan structure on the bridge deck."

Why. Huge sounds like the usual roomaran, but reasonable sized deckhouses are very livable, simplify solid connectives, and aren't a total killer on windage within reason. I actually don't like where Wharram has come out on this, he finally went to deckhouses, but they are independent parts, and do not add to structure. I also don't like Wood's with the houses mostly between the hulls, though I can see the advantage going forward, and on windage. I'd prefer the center access approach as on Oram and White, but fear it may not be as good except on larger boats than I am likely to attempt.

 

Have you checked my Sagitta, Eclipse, Flica34,35,37, Transit, Nimbus, Cirrus designs?? They all have "conventional" bridgedeck cabins.

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

 

Yes. As I said, it's the ones with the houses between the hulls.

 

Well, well; horses for courses. For my taste, a part of the joy of a cat is an open deck. This is maybe a metaphysical reflection, why a cat? to voyage into open horizons, if you want lots of rooms, enclosed spaces, build a big house on the land. Notwithstanding the esoteric stuff that merits hours of discussion with several bottles of rum, a few practical points. In 11 years of ocean cruising in high and low latitudes in a heavy, slow monohull which when I built it I thought was the ultimate world cruiser, I realised a few things, crossing oceans gives you time to wonder what the hell you're up too!!! Seems to me that some of Wharrams ideas are quite valid. Years ago I had to deliver a Prout snowgoose from uk to west indies, by the time we got to canaries it was cracking up, so it got shipped back to the uk, maybe the flexible mounting that wharram advocates is not such a bad thing, more recent experience on a wharram confirms this in my mind. Whilst on the big island (hawaii) I also sailed a traditional lashed together cat which seemed to flex and 'walk' over the waves. Unless you sail in nasty climates, like the UK!! It seems that a large clear open deck space is far more livable than enclosed cabins, although some kind of small wheelhouse is maybe nice too. Due to the relative/apparent wind speed/direction phenomena associated with cats, (you always feel like you're sailing against the wind!) sail plan/rigs are an area that need a good look at too. Wharram has a lot of good ideas, where I feel he falls down is in the hull design/construction area, but then he is designing for the home build garden shed market. Conceptionally wharram is the king but in terms of design and construction Richard Woods is the master. So maybe like making chutney you have to take a bit of this, and a bit of that, and stir it together, to suit your taste. If Iain Oughtred designed a cat, I bet it would be worth a second look!!!