eco-trimaran

[swimslikearock]

Hello,

I am a complete newbie to the world of boats but have recently been bitten by the bug of desire to leave it all (and I mean ALL) behind and go ocean cruising. I have just discovered this forum and have already learned much from lurking here and reading the many interesting threads. Even though I have little knowledge of boats in general, I find that I am most interested in the Cat- and Tri-maran designs. I wonder if any of you are familiar with the "Eco-Tri" design concept ( http://www.oeko-trimaran.de/eco%20trimaran.htm ) and could comment on its feasibility?

Thanks!

[pir8ped]

Great! It looks to me like it is headed for the rocks.

You have to ask yourself how someone who designs websites in such a cack-handed way can design a solar-powered trimaran ship.

Eeek-o-trimaran!

[uncookedlentil]

cg is going to need some serious recalculating if you don't want those lovely solar panels to get wet

[Virtech1]

Good intentions - but the illustration is scary! Maybe on a calm day - but then why the wind generator? The torpedo "hulls" would have to be well ballasted (good place for batteries, fresh water and holding tanks, etc.) - think SWATH hulls - mostly submerged, with support pylons of sufficient cross sectional area to provide reserve righting moment. As shown, windage would a worry on anything but a downwind run; while stability in large seas is definitely a concern. I've seen other "green" vessel concepts that I would definitely be more comfortable in.

[swimslikearock]

Yes, the website is amateurish and the illustrations are basically cartoons- but it is the underlying concept of an environmentally powered vessel that is intriguing, and perhaps worth pursuing.

Several obvious improvements come to mind. For instance, if the three-bladed windmill-type generator were to be replaced with a vertical-axis wind turbine ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_axis_wind_turbine ) then the top-heaviness of the original design would be essentially eliminated because the generator and gearbox would be down on the deck or even inside the main hull instead of up on a tall mast.

I would love to see someone with deep pockets (that's not me!) build a proof-of-concept model of this thing. I think it looks kind of cool in an alien spacecraft kind of way.

[charmc]

The author writes as if the concept has been proven, but the amateurish presentation leads me to suspect the website is the culmination of all efforts so far.

I suspect that a proof of concept would look very different.

[masalai]

Just buy of build a standard no nonsense trimaran of the size you need/desire and keep away from daydream ideas if for yourself, the seas and weather is not renown for being a kind environment....

[uncookedlentil]

I'm happy to report that the eco cat concept is actually well beyond the concept stage and has a track record of crossing the Atlantic in 29 days in winter without getting too outlandish looking.

http://www.solarnavigator.net/transatlantic_21.htm

True, they went the solar route, but I like that better then the big rotors approach.

We've already figured out how to capture the wind with high roach, fully battened sheets of fabric.

[Virtech1]

I've been working on various concepts for an ecologically and economically friendly home on the water for a while now. I lived on a 35' monohull sailboat for 8 years and have seen my share of nautical miles pass under the keel, as well as some pretty severe weather. I learned that the most important criteria for a vessel is that it be a "foul weather friend" literally! This being said - most of the concepts I have been trying to bring from dream to potential reality are multihulls, including catamaran, proa, and trimaran configurations. The main challenges I find in multihull design are 1) keeping the CG low enough to maintain sufficient stability in large seas, 2) keeping windage, particularly windage well above waterline to a minimum, and 3) maintaining sufficient strength in the larger hull surface areas and longer beams and structural members to resist the greater tortional and flexular loads that a multihull is subject to. On the otherhand, multihulls tend to be much better platforms for photovoltaic panels, and are more easily driven. I hope to submit a couple of my more evolved concepts to the design gallery.

[Virtech1]

I've been working on various concepts for an ecologically and economically friendly home on the water for a while now. I lived on a 35' monohull sailboat for 8 years and have seen my share of nautical miles pass under the keel, as well as some pretty severe weather. I learned that the most important criteria for a vessel is that it be a "foul weather friend" literally! This being said - most of the concepts I have been trying to bring from dream to potential reality are multihulls, including catamaran, proa, and trimaran configurations. The main challenges I find in multihull design are 1) keeping the CG low enough to maintain sufficient stability in large seas, 2) keeping windage, particularly windage well above waterline to a minimum, and 3) maintaining sufficient strength in the larger hull surface areas and longer beams and structural members to resist the greater tortional and flexular loads that a multihull is subject to. On the otherhand, multihulls tend to be much better platforms for photovoltaic panels, and are more easily driven. I hope to submit a couple of my more evolved concepts to the design gallery.

[masalai]

So it ended (according to the website on 21 May 2007) at New York? - - - So where is the press coverage? - - - I guess a bit of over-optimism and dreaming?

[uncookedlentil]

just like the media blackout on the successful California electric cars, see ''Who killed the Electric Car?'', excellent documentary on the graft and corruption aligned against green solutions in this country.

As long as the press serves on bended knee to the most powerful oil men and women, mustn't forget Condi who had an oil tanker named after her, you won't see much news about successful, here and now bypasses on fossil fuel paradigm.

I'm afraid it's up to us and there's strong headwinds, gale force.

[masalai]

All I can say to that is to have a look at the 6 or so cross-linked threads and add to them if you have updated information relevant to the specified topic by starting here http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...525#post193525. - - We set them up as a reference source, not as a discussion forum so new developments could be added by posting a link.

I expect some developments around "end 2008" on batteries, solar photovoltaic, and electric drives.

Our hull design guru is Rick Willoughby, and gradually you will find others with particular interests/expertise. - - Forget the "eco-friendly" as a boat cannot be if using the best/most appropriate materials/technology, fuel efficiency, low power, efficient and easily driven hull design are achievable objectives.

The oceans do not forgive poor design, inappropriate materials/technology. Good luck...

[charmc]

Originally Posted by uncookedlentil

just like the media blackout on the successful California electric cars, see ''Who killed the Electric Car?'', excellent documentary on the graft and corruption aligned against green solutions in this country.

Whoa, friend. While it had a few good points, that movie was slanted propaganda. The GM EV1s should have been good, they cost several million each to produce. They were prototypes built to test real world ownership experience. The limiting factor for electrics, hybrid and plug-in alike, has been battery development. Fantastically expensive EV1s were only 2 seaters, had virtually no luggage space, and a max range of 125 miles under ideal conditions. "Refueling" took 4-6 hours. Technology doesn't progress from theory to nearly perfect product overnight, no matter how much the greens want it to. Batteries are getting better, i.e. higher power densities, meaning more power, lighter weight, and longer life per charge. Each generation builds on the previous and becomes better, but the process takes time. Right now the very, very best batteries store energy at densities less tha 500 kilojoules per kilogram, while gasoline has more than 40,000 kj/kg. R & D will eventually produce a nearly perfect product, but no one knows what it will be yet, and at some point the decision must be made to produce what is available now. The profits from those products will fund the R & D of future and better generations of products. That's how it works.

BTW, GM has commited to producing the Volt, which will actually seat 4. Range on batteries is still limited, and production costs will make the break even point more than $40,000. each. They will be subsidized, sold for less than cost, to get them out to the market. Even with today's high fuel costs, due largely to the declining value of the dollar (since 2000, crude has quadrupled in value in dollars, but only doubled in value in Euros), the market will be limited, I believe, because electric vehicles are not yet suited for the way most Americans drive.

I'm not opposed to electrics. They should be great for city and "close in" suburban dwellers, and eventually they'll be good enough to occupy a significant share of the market. The process will take time, though. It always does, with or without conspiracies.

Edit: Leave us not forget that electric power does not grow on trees. More electric cars will mean greater demand for electricity, meaning more demand for grid power, meaning more demand for fossil fuels. There will be solutions, but not overnight.

[charmc]

Originally Posted by masalai

So it ended (according to the website on 21 May 2007) at New York? - - - So where is the press coverage? - - - I guess a bit of over-optimism and dreaming?

Feature story in the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/ny...=1&oref=slogin

Proof of concept; a long way from popular acceptance for a powerboat easily passed by even a heavy keel monohull sailboat in light airs.

PV cells are getting more powerful and less costly, natural progression. I wouldn't be surprised to see some boats similar to this one in production once the price comes down. Niche market at first, growing as costs come down and performance increases.