Daggerboard versus keel fin on cruiser

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by michael pierzga

As Oldsailor has pointed out...you must decide between Racer and cruiser. Performance wise, My experience says that an oceanic cruiser is optimised for reaching, a coastal cruiser is optimised for windward work. Daggerboards are not needed for an oceanic cruiser.

Not sure I agree completely.

A good ocean cruiser is optimized for best sailing performance, in general, allowing you to sail on any point efficiently.

A "racing" boat, if properly set up for single handing, easy reefing, etc... makes for the best cruiser one can buy.

[michael pierzga]

On the coast you must beat to make destination. At sea you optimize your route planning and keep the wind off your nose to make destination. Only a masochist would beat to windward for days on end.

[Mick@itc]

Originally Posted by Alan.M

If you're going to have saildrives, I would go with LAR keels, at least deep enough to protect the saildrive legs. Saildrive legs are too expensive and delicate to have hanging down unprotected.

You'll lose some performance though.

Hi
I'll likely be going outboards so no protection issues.

Thanks for the input.
Mick

[Mick@itc]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Not sure I agree completely.

A good ocean cruiser is optimized for best sailing performance, in general, allowing you to sail on any point efficiently.

A "racing" boat, if properly set up for single handing, easy reefing, etc... makes for the best cruiser one can buy.

Definitely not a Racing boat...very much as cruiser with COastL the primary and ocean the secondary use. But easy to use is primary as there will only be one and a 1/2 sailors aboard.

Mick

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by michael pierzga

On the coast you must beat to make destination. At sea you optimize your route planning and keep the wind off your nose to make destination. Only a masochist would beat to windward for days on end.

That's true, but weather can be (at times) contrary to prevailing patterns. (trade winds excepted)

Sometimes, you have to tighten it up a little bit to make a destination.

Aside from that, you only cross the ocean for a few weeks. Most of a boat's time is spent at anchor, then the remainder moving along the coast of an interesting destination. Crossing oceans is a "once in a while" situation for most cruisers.

[Alan.M]

Originally Posted by Mick@itc

Hi
I'll likely be going outboards so no protection issues.

Thanks for the input.
Mick

With outboards I'd go daggerboards and kick-up rudders, no question! Extreme shallow draught and beachability. Love it.

As for the coastal/ocean use - even a circumnavigator will spend time coastal cruising. Also, daggerboard boats are faster downwind too, not just upwind. Boards fully raised = less drag than LARs.

Ease of use is no issue - if you are REALLY lazy you can just leave the daggers 1/2 down. But it's really no problem adjusting them anyway - you trim sails FAR more often. Cruising, you'd adjust daggers maybe a couple of times in an average passage, often not at all.

[rayaldridge]

I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe this has been mentioned, but I think that for a couple reasons, daggerboard boats are safer than boats with fixed keels.

A boat with keels is not as likely to surf sideways without taking a heavy blow, if the boards are lifted. This may be one reason Wharrams have such agood safety record. in my old Wharram, in breaking seas, the boat never took a solid blow, just sliding sideways in the broken water, very quickly.

The other reason a boat with boards is safer is that it can be taken into much shallower water to escape bad weather. Up a foot-deep mangrove creek is safer in a hurricane than anchoring in a deeper but more open anchorage. In addition, most of us will eventually try to get across a bar or other shallow area when we really shouldn't. If we have board and we hit, the board can be pulled up and the boat either will cross the bar or we'll be able to go back out. Once the keels are hard aground, the situation may become more serious.

[michael pierzga]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

That's true, but weather can be (at times) contrary to prevailing patterns. (trade winds excepted)

Sometimes, you have to tighten it up a little bit to make a destination.

Aside from that, you only cross the ocean for a few weeks. Most of a boat's time is spent at anchor, then the remainder moving along the coast of an interesting destination. Crossing oceans is a "once in a while" situation for most cruisers.

Upwind, At what wind angle would a good cruising cat, without daggerboards, sail ? With daggerboards ?

[oldsailor7]

Catbuilder said. A "racing" boat, if properly set up for single handing, easy reefing, etc... makes for the best cruiser one can buy.

Amen.
I always thought the Kraken 40 made a wonderful fast cruiser for four people.