CSK / polynesian concept catamaran

[djeeke]

Hi all,

I have been directed to this forum as it seems there are a lot of knowledgeable people here. First this forum did not seem the right one to ask my questions so I never subscribed... I guess I might we wrong so here I am...

We are looking at buying a catamaran (budget limits us to older/smaller boats).
Our intent is to find a boat capable of taking us anywhere, so its design must have ocean sailing incorporated. We would be a couple sailing, so singlehand capability is required, occasionally we might take on some family or friends. We spotted a 37ft CSK catamaran for sale and are trying to get some feedback on this boat...

There have not been many of these boats built and it seems it is very difficult to obtain first hand information on them.

The only feedback I got till now is mixed, it seems to sail well, the hulls would be very narrow and access to the hulls from the cabin very difficult (have not seen any pictures of that area so have no clue on this). The person that provided this info also stated that he would not consider crossing an ocean with this boat. (which if confirmed would simply take the boat of our list)

If there is anyone here with knowledge about these boats
I would be happy to read your comments...

Thank you for sharing knowledge and experience

[catsketcher]

The second cat to sail around the world was a CSK - World cat. They were also crossing oceans when most of the current designers weren't even born. Access into the hulls will be a problem and a 37ft CSK is not the same as a 37ft modern cat. However I saw a 34 ft (ish) CSK being well sailed around the world when I first went cruising. The French family loved it.

Whether this boat is a good example of a CSK cat I don't know. There is a CSK forum at Yahoo that you should try to get into. They will know more. Just a word of warning - make sure it is what the owner says it is. Some self designed boats all of a sudden get a proper designer's stamp when up for sale. Put an image up here or on the yahoo site.

cheers

Phil

[catsketcher]

If it is not the room you are after you should also consider tris. I am a big fan of the Searunner tris by Jim Brown. Lots in the US and a few in Europe. Tris are cheaper and do pretty much the same as cats without the room.

[djeeke]

This

Is the type of boat I am talking about...

it is listed for sale here -click-

I did contact Choy design, they were so kind to respond to my queries and told me to stay away of this type of boat for world cruising ...

They did not supervise any of the building of these boats but do recall they had some (even structural) issues over the years...

I just had this feedback a few minutes ago and I guess this stops my queries about this design.

Too bad, it looked nice, probably a bit small (space inside I mean) for current modern standards but still big enough for us as a couple, high bridgedeck etc...
But if the people behind the drawing board say no, who am I to argue !!!

[djeeke]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

If it is not the room you are after you should also consider tris. I am a big fan of the Searunner tris by Jim Brown. Lots in the US and a few in Europe. Tris are cheaper and do pretty much the same as cats without the room.

Well, we do need space, we will be living on the boat... Hence the choice of a catamaran... (taking the no heel and speed as a bonus)

[bill broome]

have a look at www.sailingcatamarans.com.

woods designed some deep vee boats when getting started that might suit you, as they will be old and unfashionable.

[rayaldridge]

If you can get a copy of Buddy Ebsen's book about his boat (which as I recall was quite similar to the boat in the picture) Polynesian Concept, it's a good read. That's the boat he won the TransPac in, beating James Arness in his much larger Seasmoke.

[rasorinc]

You might check out this site for some ideas. They build Polynesian style and have pics. http://www.andy-smith-boatworks.com/...boat_works.htm

[Gary Baigent]

Ray
Polynesian Concept was definitely a fine boat and if this one is similar, although with all the cruising accoutrements it will be heavier (PC was a racer but won the Transpac with a large crew however) then it should be a good sea boat. Obviously the builders know something more about the construction - or they're being ultra conservative and overly safety conscious.
However if the boat was good, Buddy Ebsen's book was annoyingly bad and a disappointment - giant ego, suppressed arguments and tension, didn't sound like a good time even though they beat 58 foot Seasmoke.

[Gary Baigent]

That was the year that Hugo Myers' brand new, very advanced 44 foot catamaran Sea Bird also did the race, as an unofficial entry. Ebsen never even mentions the boat - which pedantic people will agree with since the cat was not an official member of the fleet. However this Myers design, at that time, was the largest open wing deck cat in the world, had a rotating mast, was very light and full of innovation and early high technology materials, a forerunner to all modern racing catamaran design - and yet Ebsen totally ignores it. Sea Bird broke a titanium rudder and was forced to slow down, concerned that the other would also go but still finished well up in fleet. Sorry this is off topic somewhat.

[djeeke]

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

Polynesian Concept was definitely a fine boat and if this one is similar, although with all the cruising accoutrements it will be heavier (PC was a racer but won the Transpac with a large crew however) then it should be a good sea boat.

AFAIK This boat is similar to 'Polynesian Concept', from the message Choy Designs returned to me :

The production versions, which we were not associated with, were not exact duplicates of the original, were much heavier, and have generally had various problems, structural and otherwise, over the years.

By the way, for those of you who know 'Polynesian Concept'

It is listed for sale here -click-

The cabin on the boat I was looking at was extended a bit forward to create a roomier interior:

It would also seem they added 1-2 ft in length. I have no clue however about the space in the hulls neither the passage into the hulls, claimed to be difficult (just a few, very high steps due to the narrow hulls ??? I don't know)...

Indeed, my idea too is that the designers are 'overly safety conscious' as Gary states.
They recommend a minimum of 40-45 ft to cross oceans and preferably even taller. (we all know a lot of 30ft cats have crossed...)

Although I do agree bigger might be better, for us this stops at a certain point!
Would I feel safer in a 50ft cat with us as a couple? I ain't Popeye, end even though I like spinach, I can't see myself (even less my wife) hoisting a huge sail without assisted winching, and what 10 to 15 years from now when we will both be reaching our 60's ???
Each of us should be able to handle the boat singlehanded...
So for us taller is not better, we won't be able to handle a huge boat, we won't ever be able to buy one and even if we would we would not have the finances to run it.

[rayaldridge]

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

Ray

However if the boat was good, Buddy Ebsen's book was annoyingly bad and a disappointment - giant ego, suppressed arguments and tension, didn't sound like a good time even though they beat 58 foot Seasmoke.

Hey, what would you expect from a Beverly Hillbilly?

It's been a long time since I read the book, but I enjoyed it mostly for the discussion of racing tactics, a subject about which I know very little. Buddy, if I recall, wasn't very happy with Choy. I guess it was a clash of two titanic egos.

It's a shame there wasn't something about Sea Bird, but history is written by the winners who write, I suppose.

[bax]

I sailed with Buddy on Polynesian Concept for a daysail back in the early seventies. He was the consumate host, inviting us back to his house where he cooked burgers for us by his cement pond. Of course, it couldn't have had anything to do with the fact that we were interested in buying one of the production Polycons! We sailed one the following day with a couple who bought one of the first ones built. Great day on the water, near Catalina. The wind was up, tore the clew right out of the jib. Being the youngest and most willing on board, I went forward to douse the jib. Had a great time, first high and dry, then up to my waist in green water as the bows dug in, heaven for a teenager!
These were my first experiences on a cat larger than a Hobie, and I was hooked, knowing that someday, I'd have a cruising cat. The original and the production Polycons were great for their day, and I imagine could hold their own against many crusing cats today, with the exception of those with daggerboards I would think. FWIW, if I were in the market for a old used cat for coastal cruising I'd consider one if the price was right.

[djeeke]

Thanks Bax !

We are looking for more than coastal cruising, someone else already told us he would not consider crossing the pond with one...

I guess you share the view...

[bax]

Yes Djeeke,

Sorry, that was long winded affirmative. I just got carried away reminiscing!

bax