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  #16  
Old 07-01-2016, 03:27 PM
jamez jamez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corley View Post
I agree, It's too bad that Bob Oram threw in the towel on designing cats I think a brief like this would be right up his alley.
+1 on that. One of the more innovative cruising cat designers of recent times.
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  #17  
Old 07-01-2016, 06:59 PM
MikeJohns MikeJohns is offline
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Originally Posted by Moewaka View Post
Hi, I've been following this site for some time but only just joined up.

I've been looking at cruising cat designs for a few years, but now getting close to making a decision and having the time and $ to start a build.

I'd like a cat at about 50ft but there are only 2 of us and 1 or 2 crew to help out from time to time so accommodation requirements are minimal for a boat of that size. A large part of the forward hulls would be devoted to bouyancy as well as some sections of the stern.

I've looked at some of the more reasonably priced designs (Waller, Woods, Tennant etc) and all the way up to the supposedly 'faster and up to date' designs where you pay tens of thousands just for the design.

The way I see it there are many designs that have been around for 15 years or so that were successful at that time but would benefit from a little 'updating' to the superstructure.

My question is this, have there been major advancements to cruising cat underwater shapes in the last 15 - 20 years or are they much the same?

I've been working in design (not naval) and building, cabinetry etc and have been making things all my life. I feel I'd be fairly capable of taking an older design and doing a bit of 'tweaking'.

Cheers.
Whats your intended use ? Extended voyaging or limited coastal cruising in the northern half of the North Island ? There's a big difference in the type of craft that are suitable.

I cruised in a 50 foot cat in a circumnav of NZ. A 50' cat is a large boat that can be quite hard to handle short crewed when it blows.
In rough weather off Taranaki heading South we had 3 out of 5 crew incapacitated and really struggled with the 2 of us. But we had a lee shore to the E and the low had tracked a lot farther North than forecast.

Performance oriented designs are being shown to be prone to being inverted in gusty conditions even in sheltered water under minimal or no sail (not wave induced) I think a bit of weight is good insurance.

Out of interest I watched this boat being re-righted last weekend.

http://www.themercury.com.au/news/ta...046-1467416393
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2016, 06:08 PM
Moewaka Moewaka is offline
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Firstly, thanks to all for your replies. Theres enough positive responses to encourage me that I'm on the right track.

This isnt going to be a charter boat, there is no need for facilities for 4 couples with all their own beds, showers and heads. Its just the 2 of us with crew as required for major crossings. As mentioned earlier, we could do all of this comfortably in a 35ft cat. We're just taking those 'parred down' (but definately not spartan) facilities and putting them in a 50ft cat. Of course we want good refrigeration, watermaker etc so need good load carrying capacity, hence were looking at Waller and the like, rather than Schionning, Grainger etc.

To answer your question MikeJohns, most of the time we will be coastal cruising but of course there's some fairly major oceans between all of the coasts we want to cruise around. So yes, this is a serious boat, and your comment about weight makes sense to me. Better to get there a little bit later, but up the right way.
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2016, 10:11 PM
Stumble Stumble is offline
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Moewaka,

Like I suggested take a look at a large trimaran.
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  #20  
Old 07-03-2016, 01:18 AM
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oldsailor7 oldsailor7 is offline
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Wharram 51ft 'Tehini' " catamaran, built with steel crossbeams.
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  #21  
Old 07-03-2016, 03:57 AM
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DennisRB DennisRB is offline
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You want a minimalist 50 footer with the space of a 38 footer. Yet regular small volume 50 footers like Schoinnings are too small so you need a big volume one like a Waller.

Sorry, I have no more suggestions as your brief no longer makes any sense to me. The oram i posted met your original SOR and easily fits good refrigeration and desalination. Even a regular 35 footer has decent refrigeration and payload for desalination let alone one stretched to 50 foot.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2016, 10:03 AM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Longer Hulls, Shorter Rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moewaka View Post
Hi, I've been following this site for some time but only just joined up.

I've been looking at cruising cat designs for a few years, but now getting close to making a decision and having the time and $ to start a build.

I'd like a cat at about 50ft but there are only 2 of us and 1 or 2 crew to help out from time to time so accommodation requirements are minimal for a boat of that size. A large part of the forward hulls would be devoted to bouyancy as well as some sections of the stern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moewaka View Post
Firstly, thanks to all for your replies. Theres enough positive responses to encourage me that I'm on the right track.

This isnt going to be a charter boat, there is no need for facilities for 4 couples with all their own beds, showers and heads. Its just the 2 of us with crew as required for major crossings. As mentioned earlier, we could do all of this comfortably in a 35ft cat. We're just taking those 'parred down' (but definately not spartan) facilities and putting them in a 50ft cat. Of course we want good refrigeration, watermaker etc so need good load carrying capacity, hence were looking at Waller and the like, rather than Schionning, Grainger etc.
I understand where you are coming from Moewaka, and it is something I have preached for years,....make the vessel a wee bit longer than you might require for all the items/accommodations you desire to have aboard. Leave the ends of the vessel EMPTY, and don't seccumb to the temptations to add more storage or accommodations in those void spaces.

And you don't necessarily need to add extra sail area or rig height to drive those slightly longer hulls.

I'll give you a prime example on a much smaller scale. Back when I was originally getting into the boat business, I was opening up beach catamaran rentals. One prime production catamaran line I had chosen to utilize was the Prindle catamaran line. At first they had only a 16 foot model. Soon after they built the first 18 foot asymmetrical cat. It was a winner, but as rental boats go the rig was taller and more complicated that the 16. My thought was why not put the 16's rig on the 18 hulls. WOW, what a winner it turned out to be. The longer, more robust hulls of the 18 could fully carry 2 couples, yet the rig remained very controllable and safer in the rental business. By that time I had become the major east coast distributor of their boats, and Prindle agreed to build such a model if I would order a full truck load at each time (20 boats). I utilized them in a number of my rentals, and sold them to other rental businesses.

....and those longer hulls with the shorter rig turned out to be quite competitive in our 'unofficial racing', particularly in heavier weather and chop.
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  #23  
Old 07-03-2016, 01:35 PM
Moewaka Moewaka is offline
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Thankyou Brian. You've managed to grasp exactly what I'm talking about. And thankyou to all those others who posted.
I'll post my progress as I move forward with this.
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  #24  
Old 07-05-2016, 07:02 PM
redreuben redreuben is offline
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I'd agree with the Bob Oram comments, Moewaka have you looked at Rob Denney's Harryproa's minimal accomodation on a long waterline is exactly what they are all about.

http://harryproa.com
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  #25  
Old 07-07-2016, 06:21 AM
tane tane is offline
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http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/ind...ft-/186-ondina
http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/index...=big-wednesday
or a somewhat tuned down
https://www.topyacht.com.au/mt/mt_photo.php?boid=4348
??
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  #26  
Old 07-07-2016, 08:25 AM
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DennisRB DennisRB is offline
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I was on top gun for a while at the dock. Got a tour, but didn't get to go for sail unfortunately. It has less space in the pod than a 20 foot trailer sailer. Amazing boat though.
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  #27  
Old 07-07-2016, 10:21 AM
Stumble Stumble is offline
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I am just having a hard time understanding why the goal is to buy a large cruising cat when minimal acomodations are desired. Other than a racing cat any large cat is going to come with voluminous acomodations in this size boat, they just come along for the ride.

Where acomodations aren't the primary driver, but speed and comfort are I just keep thinking that a large trimaran makes more sense. It will be faster, lighter, cheaper, and the major design limitation of trimarans is..., minimal acomodations for the size. In this case that limitation is actually a bonus.

I won't mention it again since I feel like I am beating a dead horse, but from what I have read here the Rapido 60 trimaran seems to perfectly fit the SOR. http://www.rapidotrimarans.com
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  #28  
Old 08-01-2016, 05:32 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I am just having a hard time understanding why the goal is to buy a large cruising cat when minimal acomodations are desired. Other than a racing cat any large cat is going to come with voluminous acomodations in this size boat, they just come along for the ride.

Where acomodations aren't the primary driver, but speed and comfort are I just keep thinking that a large trimaran makes more sense. It will be faster, lighter, cheaper, and the major design limitation of trimarans is..., minimal acomodations for the size. In this case that limitation is actually a bonus.

I won't mention it again since I feel like I am beating a dead horse, but from what I have read here the Rapido 60 trimaran seems to perfectly fit the SOR. http://www.rapidotrimarans.com
Sweet boat but I think he wants to build one himself, or am I misunderstanding?

Have you looked at the Chris White Atlantic 57, it's pretty spartan I think.
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  #29  
Old 08-01-2016, 08:05 PM
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oldsailor7 oldsailor7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgepease View Post
Sweet boat but I think he wants to build one himself, or am I misunderstanding?
Again I recomend the Wharram "Tehini".At 51ft is is big ,but incredibly easy to build. With myself and three "helpers", we built one in four weeks.
It has a great safety record, and is fast with a bermuda rig, but still very easy to sail with a variety of rigs. It has oodles of room inside which can be divided into private sections. The "Tied logs" idea is a bit too agricultural for most people, but the one we built for a client was fitted with steel I section crossbeams which were light ,strong and indestructible. Wharram himself sailed on this boat in 1976 and approved of it's construction. It was fitted out by the owners wife, survived a grounding on the US eastern waterway and completed extensive cruising around the Bahamas without fuss or problems. I don't, know what eventually happened to it, but I never heard of anything untoward.
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  #30  
Old 08-02-2016, 04:30 AM
catsketcher catsketcher is offline
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Gday Pat

I don't think you could build a Tehini in epoxy and glass, with proper ply saturation with two coats of epoxy inside and glass on the outside with full internal fitout in 6 weeks, maybe 6 months. My friend Glen had to rebuild his Tehini and it took almost a full year of him and his wife working together, and they work hard. He loves his boat but his sons, who grew up on the boat, want something more modern, faster and more manouvrable.
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