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  #121  
Old 10-31-2016, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jorgepease View Post

However I am def stuck on infusing both hulls and bridgedeck in one shot because I think most people lose sight of how much time is wasted setting up and breaking down infusions, moving materials and infused components around and just switching gears in repetitive work.

Then again, most home builders can't take advantage of a production style work flow for many reasons - $money, space, equipment (hoists) etc... I am fortunate to have the budget up front.
But didn't you say you did NOT want to have your own facility for building boats? Where do you intend to keep those valuable (not one-off) molds in between several build projects??


Quote:
Looking forward to this! Hopefully building over there will make sense!!
One thing I might make the suggestion to do is to sub-contract the hulls and bridgedeck portion to another very experienced builder, then move those pieces over to your own rented space. I may know just such a builder over there in Thailand.
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  #122  
Old 10-31-2016, 12:16 PM
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50' Gunboat (picnic/weekender)?

Look what Gunboat is now proposing,
"Rather than several smaller spaces on the main deck chopped up by bulkheads, the Gunboat 50 has one huge uninterrupted space from the mast to the aft crossbeam. The space is entirely convertible. For daysailing or cruising in warm weather, the sides drop down for the ultimate outdoor feel. In inclement weather, the sides roll up to create a cozy cocoon, albeit with Gunboatís unique 360 degree visibility.

While many offerings in this size range stuff a mansionís worth of un-used accommodations into the space, the Gunboat 50 shows ultimate restraint. There are simply two superyacht style cabins. Letís face it, most people in this size range simply sail with their spouse, and on occasion, another couple. If the kids join the fun, they can sleep on the daybeds and sofas of the maindeck."

http://www.gunboat.com/50-description.php

The new Gunboat 50 is designed for the way we sail:
+Entertaining friends on daysails
+Shorthanded cruising with your spouse or maybe another couple
+A sabbatical cruise, or a tropical circumnavigation


Gunboat appears to have taken this concept forward in great style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=117&v=cveZ9UsxMt0
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  #123  
Old 10-31-2016, 12:58 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Sweet, I love all boats )) ... I think I posted somewhere in this thread about a Rapier model with a galley in open cockpit similar to your link. I believe Richard W. mentioned it was a bad idea for theft reasons. I was thinking the elements and bugs might be more of an issue since you could probably make it lockable... The Gun Boat is gorgeous, way out of my price range!!!
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  #124  
Old 10-31-2016, 01:06 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
But didn't you say you did NOT want to have your own facility for building boats? Where do you intend to keep those valuable (not one-off) molds in between several build projects??



One thing I might make the suggestion to do is to sub-contract the hulls and bridgedeck portion to another very experienced builder, then move those pieces over to your own rented space. I may know just such a builder over there in Thailand.
Yes, no overhead. A one off mold is MUCH less costly than a regular mold and the station forms plus battens are reusable. Not so sure about the sheathing, I am working on that now. If not too complex of shapes, I believe the panels might be saved.

Whaaat and take the fun out of breaking my back!!! lol ))) .. no seriously, I have around 450K, not much room for hiring somebody else to build especially since I believe I am going the Torqeedo route... Though I might be interested in contracting out some of the other components if he is interested.
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  #125  
Old 11-02-2016, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by groper View Post
Yes, the designers you refer to design great yachts, i also like them alot. I guess what I'm trying to say is that a 50ft full bridge deck cat is a mammoth task, no matter how you go about it. I don't know of anyone who has completed one in under 3 years full time. Perhaps of you had 3 highly skilled and experienced builders you might get there in 12 months. But otherwise, I think your underestimating it.

Underestimates are risky because they can leave you short of money and your project isn't worth a fraction of what you've invested in it until it's finished. There is a Schionning for sale here now which is at undercoat stage, structurally finished. He can't move it for $100k... the materials alone are worth more than that, years of labour shed rental down the drain for him... seen it many times before aswell, there was another one I was thinking out last year.

Buying a nearly finished boat or unfinished project is something I've been thinking about as opposed to building from scratch. Great way to cut down the hours required
I think you hit the nail on its head!

That partial built Schionning might just make a lot of sense.
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  #126  
Old 11-02-2016, 08:05 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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I understand the risk and the advantages of buying something used or partially built but those options come with potential pitfalls as well.

The biggest one is, it's not what I want ))
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  #127  
Old 11-02-2016, 09:06 AM
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Go Test Sail some sample multihulls

Is some form of the SIG 45 what you want?

I would strongly suggest that you go have a personal sail on one,...or for that matter any other type catamaran you have in mind. And make sure it is in a good solid breezy conditions, preferable with an ocean swell also. I believe you have said your experiences with sailing are limited, and your experiences on multihull sailboats as well??

It may influence your thinking.

I'll expand on those thoughts if you want?
I can expand on this recent sailing trip as well,...
Ppalu sailing trip (75' cat)
Historical multihulls
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  #128  
Old 11-02-2016, 10:23 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Is some form of the SIG 45 what you want?

I would strongly suggest that you go have a personal sail on one,...or for that matter any other type catamaran you have in mind. And make sure it is in a good solid breezy conditions, preferable with an ocean swell also. I believe you have said your experiences with sailing are limited, and your experiences on multihull sailboats as well??

It may influence your thinking.

I'll expand on those thoughts if you want?
I can expand on this recent sailing trip as well,...
Ppalu sailing trip (75' cat)
Historical multihulls
Good Read Lucky for me I still am in top physical condition lol it's my mind that is old and doesn't want to settle ) ... As a child we raced smaller j hulls and I've been on a blocky charter cat and that is about it for sail boats. I can def say the charter cat is not an option.

I originally wanted to have something like Whites mast foil idea for ease of use but what I have read about it has not been great. Rob Denny has some good comments on unstayed masts, I would like to have one because I like the idea of less parts to fail and ease of use. I am going to have to rely on knowledgeable people, like you, and the designers to keep me in the practical zone because I admit, I don't know how difficult it is to hoist or lower a huge sail.

However that doesn't influence my decision to build. Groper was the one who suggested the SIG45 because it reduces build time by eliminating work. I like the SIG45 too but I know I need shade so the boom has to be raised over a full hard top with soft windows.

Here is a layout I have been working on. This is the Flying Fish 50 with hulls extended to 55' but it could be a 45 extended to 50 or 55. Tony Grainger did mention that I might need to extend hull if I go full electric to compensate for extra battery weight. I don't think it would be that much extra weight depending on designed power (diesels)

So here it is so far ... the shorter hull is just because I am still working on the drawing ))
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  #129  
Old 11-02-2016, 10:35 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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The raised areas (purple lines) ,under Bimini, are lounge seating areas and give room where I need it on the interiors.

A good height for seating is around 20 inches high. I want the raised roof on the hulls to provide back rest and wind protection so that has to be another 24" minimum. I'm doing all of this by scaling the images I can collect off the internet and then using a 6' tall scaled image of a person so it's not perfect.

My biggest concern doesn't have anything to do with sailing but security. I want everything to be really lockable so I don't worry every time I leave the boat moored. If they are going to steal from me, they are going to have to work for it lol!! Even the tender I would prefer to be stowed under the bridgedeck, I have some ideas for that.

Look at that massive deck )) ... and how much work has been eliminated because that deck doesn't have to be faired.
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  #130  
Old 11-02-2016, 08:07 PM
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I am a great admirer of the Stiletto 30 catamaran,...a very similar vessel in concept to the SIG
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3114

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnZ04WvRCzQ

So the SIG appealed to me as well. BUT look at just a couple of items:
1) In rougher conditions think about moving forward or aft. There are nice open spaces, but very little to hold onto. On an ocean going vessel you NEED lifelines along the gunnels, AND you need some walking space to negotiate those paths while holding on to those lifelines. Nether the 30 Stiletto, nor the SIG 45 have those features. Their raised cabins extend out to the gunnels,...not an ocean going feature.

Even the deckhouse cabin on Ppalu was too narrow to be utilized as a hand hold when moving fore and aft,...and that's IF the cabin top had been provided with hand grips, which it was not.

2) The transoms on the SIG45 are NOT conducive to boarding whether to access the dinghy, or just to go swimming. And the rudders on those transoms are not conducive to shallow water exploring.

Just 2 items, I'm sure I might think of more. The SIG is a nice daysailer, weekender but not a good offshore cruising cat.
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  #131  
Old 11-02-2016, 10:41 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
I am a great admirer of the Stiletto 30 catamaran,...a very similar vessel in concept to the SIG
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3114

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnZ04WvRCzQ

So the SIG appealed to me as well. BUT look at just a couple of items:
1) In rougher conditions think about moving forward or aft. There are nice open spaces, but very little to hold onto. On an ocean going vessel you NEED lifelines along the gunnels, AND you need some walking space to negotiate those paths while holding on to those lifelines. Nether the 30 Stiletto, nor the SIG 45 have those features. Their raised cabins extend out to the gunnels,...not an ocean going feature.

Even the deckhouse cabin on Ppalu was too narrow to be utilized as a hand hold when moving fore and aft,...and that's IF the cabin top had been provided with hand grips, which it was not.

2) The transoms on the SIG45 are NOT conducive to boarding whether to access the dinghy, or just to go swimming. And the rudders on those transoms are not conducive to shallow water exploring.

Just 2 items, I'm sure I might think of more. The SIG is a nice daysailer, weekender but not a good offshore cruising cat.
That's a nice little boat!!!
Yeah mine wouldn't be the SIG45 exactly and I don't need 27 + Knots!! ))

On 1) a person wouldn't walk down the gunnels, just down the center deck. On 2) Yes I agree, some steps down, the flying fish model has them

and def a kick up or height/angle adjustable rudder if you happen to sail through some shallows.

For sure it would be for minimalists, everything has to have it's spot.
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  #132  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:00 AM
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On 1) a person wouldn't walk down the gunnels, just down the center deck. .
Try that in a bit of a rough sea. That's why I suggested you should go experience in person a few of those vessel designs you are considering.

Even a lot of the 'condomarans' built these days lack proper hand-holds in their big open saloons.
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  #133  
Old 11-03-2016, 09:17 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Brian, I doubt I will get the chance to do that. My cousins raised their 3 kids on a big ole 70' condomaran. They travelled extensively for 7 years gathering all sorts of treasures as they went. The kids are all at university age now so they are looking to sell and get something smaller and more nimble. I have another friend who has a charter cat 44' in Virgin Islands and that thing is not meant for ocean crossing.

Can you be more specific about why it would be a bad ocean cruiser? Also think along the lines of the flyingfish, the SIG45 was just an example of minimizing work.

Thanks )
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  #134  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:23 AM
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If I were looking to spend upwards of .5 million on a vessel, and spend all the time and effort to build it, I would definitely put a little time and effort into personal experiencing several different types in person,...by charter, by bumming rides on other's boats (there are a lot of helpful owners out there that just might offer you some rides on their boats), by test sails, etc.

Experience is a great teacher. It just might bring up some details you want to either include or dismiss on your project.
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  #135  
Old 11-04-2016, 10:04 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Well hopefully I can get more experience from now till next year but realistically my schedule is pretty crammed so I might get out once or twice but not on the right boat and probably not in the right conditions. For sure boat 2 will have some improvements but I don't think that I am too far off the mark )
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