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  #526  
Old 04-22-2017, 05:19 PM
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waikikin waikikin is offline
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Originally Posted by jorgepease View Post
I checked it out, can't see from the front angle but I wonder why the 45 to the shelf? must be for a chase?

Anyway I decided to raise it a bit to be on the safe side, now my shelfs will be at 39" above waterline and rest of BD will be at 53.5 above waterline... It will raise interior bunks to 33" and I will see about the sheer but I think it's okay where it is.

At the forward end it's more typical to ramp and tangent into the curved section over more distance, what you have drawn is sudden & obtuse.
The 45 may be for the alu construction and /or to assist the steps into the hulls- the crowther boats tend to narrow. Some of them had hulls canted at 8 degrees, this made the hull centerline stance wider and with the flare to inboard made somewhat of a champher panel that interfaced with the stepped area.

Jeff.
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  #527  
Old 04-22-2017, 11:12 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Originally Posted by waikikin View Post
At the forward end it's more typical to ramp and tangent into the curved section over more distance, what you have drawn is sudden & obtuse.
The 45 may be for the alu construction and /or to assist the steps into the hulls- the crowther boats tend to narrow. Some of them had hulls canted at 8 degrees, this made the hull centerline stance wider and with the flare to inboard made somewhat of a champher panel that interfaced with the stepped area.

Jeff.
Thanks, Yes I know about tapering it into the side, hoping to avoid that if possible.

I took the shelf all the way back to help transition the aft beam as you said.

The deck is now same height as the ceiling over the shelf and at good sitting height. She is looking pretty sleek, way sleeker than I thought possible with all that bridgedeck clearance.

Here is some progress shots











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  #528  
Old Yesterday, 05:49 AM
groper groper is offline
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Imho its not worth it- why not just continue the level of the bunks right across!

Make the hull a tad deeper to compensate and keep the bridgededk clearance at 40" all the way...
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  #529  
Old Yesterday, 08:10 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Morrelli and Melvin say about 6 percent which would be 42 inches so I could probably do that. On the other hand, most of what I read says a lot of the slamming occurs in rough seas combined with the convergence of the bow waves. ... I think it's 1.3 meter right now so might be a nice feature.

From a construction standpoint it's easy as long as I don't start getting into little taper pieces which would complicate infusing in one shot, for now I am going to leave it.

The sheer is now low enough in relation to the cockpit that I can actually overhang counter space. Can't put anything under those counters but, depending on what I have on other side, that could win me an extra 4 foot in width up front. I have to study that, the roof structure a semi enclosing salon and placement of the helm.

It's a good exercise for me anyway, otherwise I will go insane waiting.
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  #530  
Old Yesterday, 05:40 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Making the top deck into counter space was a good idea. It gives me a massive galley as big as my home kitchen and barely any fit out. I did square and plumb the counters but it's very little material. Since I am all electric - Induction stovetop, toaster, blender, bindi robot, air fryer etc... I don't have any gas lines to mess with.

Very little fit out below as well. The bunk shelf and bulkheads support the platform for the bed which is premade with all cabinetry pre installed to the shelf, it just slides onto the shelf and glues down. If fitout is 1/3 the game then cool!!

Elec and plumbing don't intimidate me and they don't take a long time if you have everything worked out ahead of time. Rigging is where I am super behind starting with what does the mast attach too, I keep reading it sits on the main beam but I also thought I read it fits into a socket. I'm guessing it's a socket attached to the beam?

cheers!!!

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  #531  
Old Yesterday, 07:58 PM
groper groper is offline
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What you are designing ia a full bridgedeck boat. You might aswell go ahead and design a nice looking cabin to go over it... i like the grainger style ones
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  #532  
Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM
groper groper is offline
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Or the sig 60 style



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  #533  
Old Yesterday, 08:13 PM
groper groper is offline
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I hope the above gives some perspective to size... look at the size of that boom! Imagjne the rest of the rig! My wallet hurts just looking at the above pic....
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  #534  
Old Yesterday, 09:06 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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lol, I am pretty sure that is the 80, few million worth of hurt, but what a beauty.

When I finish with mine, you will see, it will be nice. Honestly, I don't understand how you are going to cross oceans with only a Bimini. Why rough it? An open air cabin with a gourmet kitchen is the best of both worlds.
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  #535  
Old Yesterday, 10:03 PM
groper groper is offline
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Well for me , i was going to do a galley down in a hull. But like i said, my needs and wants difder greatly from the norm.

If i was to do build again, it would be an extremely lean machine. Low cost to build, very minimalistic etc but it would sail like a race boat.... id put a full rotating rig on it with a wingmast also... not what you normally see on crusing boats and not as comfortable as a typical cruising boat.

If i wanted a typical comfy cruising cat- i would not build one, theres plenty of them for sale on the used market for a fraction od what it wpuld cost to build one
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  #536  
Old Today, 05:11 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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If you are going to those extremes, the SIG45 or Gunboat G4 sound right. I think though, that after a few thousand miles you are going to be worn out, if not you, then your woman )

I want to see how light - for the luxury - I can build a boat. Minimal fit out and taking advantage of the structure to provide seating and counter space type of thing with the exception of a huge solar roof which has to look good and be as light as possible.

Features like movable bar chairs, that can be plugged at the helm as well etc... are the type of ideas I want to implement.

By doing this modeling I can see how efficiently I can build such a boat. All components have to be molded if I plan to ever build more than one and the molds should incorporate as much fitout as possible - A shelf for bunks and topside level ledge for galley means I only need to build a countertop and base for beds. The raised ceiling of cabins creates a perfect height for seats, I only have to provide cushions. The scallop for outboard bracket in hulls etc... etc ... most of the construction work is done popped out of the mold.

The molds will take a lot of thought and care but they aren't complicated and with CNC I can establish the framing through stations. Thankful now for my extensive experience as a carpenter I feel comfortable in my ability to execute such shapes without a hitch.

If I keep it light enough, then I can ease off on the size of the rig. I don't need a mast that would normally be used to push a 60 footer if it only weighs as much as a 45 footer and I don't need the speed of a SIG or Gunboat.

Other things I don't need - extensive electronics. I like the trend toward multifunction displays, give me the very least possible. For sure I don't want to see multiple monitors at a helm or chart table. Looks good but do you really need it? No! It's like all the fancy fishing boats down here in the keys, radar, two fish finders, and gps, heck my neighbor with the rattiest boat of all wins most fishing tournaments he enters and all he has is a handheld gps.

Of course none of this makes good business sense. A good business person would go out and buy a couple of used cats for a 100K each and renovate them and start making a profit from the get go, I can't argue with that logic but in the end you also have to consider what it is you want to accomplish in life, building for me is part of that journey.

I will probably end up penniless or dead but neither of those are worse than being unhappy.
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  #537  
Old Today, 06:34 AM
rob denney rob denney is offline
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Originally Posted by jorgepease View Post
If you are going to those extremes, the SIG45 or Gunboat G4 sound right. I think though, that after a few thousand miles you are going to be worn out, if not you, then your woman )

I want to see how light - for the luxury - I can build a boat. Minimal fit out and taking advantage of the structure to provide seating and counter space type of thing with the exception of a huge solar roof which has to look good and be as light as possible.

Features like movable bar chairs, that can be plugged at the helm as well etc... are the type of ideas I want to implement.

By doing this modeling I can see how efficiently I can build such a boat. All components have to be molded if I plan to ever build more than one and the molds should incorporate as much fitout as possible - A shelf for bunks and topside level ledge for galley means I only need to build a countertop and base for beds. The raised ceiling of cabins creates a perfect height for seats, I only have to provide cushions. The scallop for outboard bracket in hulls etc... etc ... most of the construction work is done popped out of the mold.

The molds will take a lot of thought and care but they aren't complicated and with CNC I can establish the framing through stations. Thankful now for my extensive experience as a carpenter I feel comfortable in my ability to execute such shapes without a hitch.

If I keep it light enough, then I can ease off on the size of the rig. I don't need a mast that would normally be used to push a 60 footer if it only weighs as much as a 45 footer and I don't need the speed of a SIG or Gunboat.

Other things I don't need - extensive electronics. I like the trend toward multifunction displays, give me the very least possible. For sure I don't want to see multiple monitors at a helm or chart table. Looks good but do you really need it? No! It's like all the fancy fishing boats down here in the keys, radar, two fish finders, and gps, heck my neighbor with the rattiest boat of all wins most fishing tournaments he enters and all he has is a handheld gps.

Of course none of this makes good business sense. A good business person would go out and buy a couple of used cats for a 100K each and renovate them and start making a profit from the get go, I can't argue with that logic but in the end you also have to consider what it is you want to accomplish in life, building for me is part of that journey.

I will probably end up penniless or dead but neither of those are worse than being unhappy.
I agree with your attitude and reckon the easiest (probably the only, but you will find that out as you get to the costing and weight part of the cat design) way to achieve it is a harryproa.

But given that you are fixed on a cat, maybe look at flat bottomed hulls which are also the cabin floor. Saves the weight, cost and work of fitting floors, frames, stringers and hatches (which is the worst job in boat building apart from hand glassing large overhead areas and fairing), lowers the topsides by 2'6" in the middle, makes for much easier infusion as the core does not need to be shaped for the compound curve of the hull and makes the bulkheads easier to install. Probably has a higher top speed as well. You lose the storage space which will mostly be filled with junk, the hassle of water and fuel tanks that cannot be cleaned, and a false floor which will almost certainly be damaged in a collision serious enough to justify it.

If you are worried about the sailing exhausting your lady friends and are not interested in constantly trimming the sails to get an extra couple of degrees upwind, then unstayed masts are the way to go. Far less work, very little to go wrong and virtually stress free. And on a boat of this size, cheaper than a stayed rig; way cheaper if you build it yourself.
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  #538  
Old Today, 07:04 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Originally Posted by rob denney View Post
I agree with your attitude and reckon the easiest (probably the only, but you will find that out as you get to the costing and weight part of the cat design) way to achieve it is a harryproa.

But given that you are fixed on a cat, maybe look at flat bottomed hulls which are also the cabin floor. Saves the weight, cost and work of fitting floors, frames, stringers and hatches (which is the worst job in boat building apart from hand glassing large overhead areas and fairing), lowers the topsides by 2'6" in the middle, makes for much easier infusion as the core does not need to be shaped for the compound curve of the hull and makes the bulkheads easier to install. Probably has a higher top speed as well. You lose the storage space which will mostly be filled with junk, the hassle of water and fuel tanks that cannot be cleaned, and a false floor which will almost certainly be damaged in a collision serious enough to justify it.

If you are worried about the sailing exhausting your lady friends and are not interested in constantly trimming the sails to get an extra couple of degrees upwind, then unstayed masts are the way to go. Far less work, very little to go wrong and virtually stress free. And on a boat of this size, cheaper than a stayed rig; way cheaper if you build it yourself.

Hi Rob, how is testing going on your new race boat?

I really like the idea of an unstayed mast. Less lines, less work, safety, less maintenance and less expense, I wonder what are the compromises?

How badly will it affect performance? Will I go 1 knot slower or 10 knots slower, or is it better into the wind or going with the wind etc...

I like the infusion idea Groper posted earlier in this thread and most likely I would build it that way.


Found this, a good read. http://www.ericwsponberg.com/wp-cont...ding-masts.pdf
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