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  #31  
Old 09-27-2016, 10:49 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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I did check your web site but I missed the build you mention. I also did a search, saw you mention it in another post, followed the link and it was dead, so either they finished or gave up.

Here is one, a Schionning 51 that was started in beginning of 2013 and is nearing launch. http://precat.nl/en/ or check their facebook page for more recent updates.

If you click on the link and then click on building hours first year, they itemized it out, Thanks Guys, got to love the internet!!

What it shows me is that many thousands of hours can be saved by simply building a mold and infusing the large structures both sides, one shot.

BTW ... Im not criticizing their build, I went through the same learning process on a tiny skiff and was pulling my hair out because half way through I realized what a stupid method it is.
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  #32  
Old 09-28-2016, 12:49 AM
Barra Barra is offline
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Originally Posted by jorgepease View Post

What it shows me is that many thousands of hours can be saved by simply building a mold and infusing the large structures both sides, one shot.
You sound very knowledgeable and well versed in the process.

Can you show us some examples you have built?

Very interested.
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  #33  
Old 09-28-2016, 01:00 AM
redreuben redreuben is offline
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A rough rule of thumb is 1/3 structure 1/3 fit out 1/3 rig and systems. So your big infusion is going to save time on the first 1/3 still leaving 2/3 to go.
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  #34  
Old 09-28-2016, 01:05 AM
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Richard Woods Richard Woods is offline
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Two people can lay up a 50ft hull in 100 hours (a week). Maybe get the loose parts for a shell together with no interior in a month. But then the work starts, and the money flows.

Fitting the wheel steering will probably take longer than laminating a hull, certainly the plumbing and electrics alone will take 100's of hours. And that is the same time whether finishing off a shell, refitting an old boat or after first building a wooden hull

The way to build a boat fast is to leave stuff out. Like use outboard engines, AA powered LED lights, minimal electronics, tiller steering, no electric pumps..

To build a fast interior you need computerised cutting, and instant-gluing ovens. Its one reason boats now have sharp corners on tables etc, very dangerous BTW, I call them Ikea boats. Modern mass produced yachts have their electric and plumbing circuits made up off the boat. You cannot really do that on a home build one off

Sully walked away from his foam sandwich Hughes 48. He started with a CM hull but threw it away. He never got past the unpainted shell stage but kept saying he was nearly finished. It might be available at a good price from the boatyard

RW
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  #35  
Old 09-28-2016, 02:25 AM
Barra Barra is offline
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Richard , it may have got launched.

See Kurt Hughes blog .. http://multihullblog.com/page/15/

Then by the Looks WW3 started over the design changes in later posts on Kurts blogg.

Kurt may have disowned it.

A long time in gestation and certainly not finished.
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  #36  
Old 09-28-2016, 03:09 AM
groper groper is offline
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yeah sully launched his boat - it was noted on this forum but sully posted under yet another alias... he likes being weird and paramoid on the internet. It was launched as a basic motor boat with outboards, no rig and virtually no fit out. What happened after that i have no idea.

But yes jorge, even if you get the structure built with a fancy time saving technique, theres so much more to go after that... And the costs involved with fitting out are astronomical.

When we rigged our 40ft cat, we spent over $40k. Thats the standing rig, sails, furlers, ropes, winches, clutches, blocks, reefing systems, heaps of winches, tracks, cars, battens, the list goes on and on... and we did it on the cheap, used 2nd hand winches and got mates rates on the new sails etc... a 50ft cat would be over $60k i reckon...

Back to my mates 40ft cat - hes on the home stretch, fairing and getting ready to paint, by the time he launches, and budgets all the rigging and sails etc he reckons it will owe him close to $400k + 6 years of his life... its just not worth it considering the deals out there on used boats, unfinished projects, etc...

Ive always said if i do this again i would go to a 3rd world country, employ 15 guys, teach them how to do it, and oversee the construction myself whilst living there... thats the way to build a boat, which also explains why nearly all the pro boat builders in australia have gone overseas...

Last edited by groper : 09-29-2016 at 07:39 AM.
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  #37  
Old 09-28-2016, 04:46 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Building out of the country has crossed my mind. I have cousins in Nicaragua that are well established, have to check on the implications of building a boat out of the country.
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  #38  
Old 09-29-2016, 07:53 AM
groper groper is offline
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If you have contacts down there, it would make it easier to get setup... your money will go so much further and you could get it done so much quicker with a small army... getting things can be difficult tho, it might be worth packing everything up into a container and shipping it down there - like get all the CNC stuff done and obtain your composite materials in the states etc and pack it into a container. ship it all down, assemble your army, and go for it and get it all finish painted in less than a year.

Motor it back to the states, rig it back home, and finish all the bolt on / equipment installations as i doubt that kind of stuff is easy to get, nor any cheaper in the 3rd world -often its more expensive, youll figure it out once your there

In Papua new guinea - which is 450NM from my home, labour costs $1.50 per hour for general labour. Back here in australia its minimum $25 per hour. I can employ 15 guys for less than the price of 1 back here... still, the lack of security, corruption, and difficulties in obtaining pretty much anything and those types of factors prevent me from considering it further. Really need to find a safe and secure place with good access to the rest of the outside world...
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  #39  
Old 09-29-2016, 09:22 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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My cousin is checking with her husband, he is well connected so who knows. I'v also put out the word in Colombia and Argentina but I'm worried If I build there, I will be dancing every night and not get any work done!

Been searching the internet to see if anyone else has done this, no hits so far.

Edit- Found This
CaptainChuckII- here's what I can tell you about the cost of doing boat work here in San Juan del Sur Nicaragua ....haul out $300....going back in $150 it doesn't mater how big you are it is all the same but they can only lift up to 25 tons, it was all the crane could do to lift my boat out! Shipwrights get $20/day. Carpenters-$10/day. Caulkers-$10/day. Painters-$8.50/day. Unskilled laborers-$5/day. The haul out on the east coast at Pearl Lagoon was less then here when I was there last year and lay days were free if no one needed the ways. I spent a day there watching the guys work and talking boat building with the shipwright and his crew/family. All the fishing boats are wood, and some look like they could be 50tons. The boats are hauled out on ways that are several hundred years old. When I was there six guys grabbed capstan bars and put them in a capstan that was about 4.5' tall and started singing and turning the capstan hauling the boat back down the ways, into the water. They told me that the capstan had come off a sailing ship that had wreaked there over 200 years ago. Earlier I had watched as they replaced a hull plank that was over 2" thick, they really knew there stuff....About other parts of central America .....Costa Rico, well around here we half jokingly call it Costa Too Mucho. We get four or five boats a year coming here to haul out and save money, especially if they are planing a big job. I've heard good things about Rio Dulce in Honduras. There are several marinas there, google them. Hope that helps oh and if you come down buy all your bronze nuts and bolts, screws, ring shank boat nails, the same for any stainless steel fastenings. And if your going to use resorcinol glue buy it there because it's not available here. Other glues are here.
Hope that helps. Capt. Z

on wooden boat forum - http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...r-in-Nicaragua

so labor prices are def right but sounds like everything would be best shipped in.

Edit 2:
I did a search on world labor costs and then cross checked crime and safety advisories. Vietnam stands out as a winner. I have sent a couple emails to people in the business. It's a long ways from my home but I've always wanted to visit there )
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  #40  
Old 09-29-2016, 11:35 PM
teamvmg teamvmg is offline
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Originally Posted by jorgepease View Post

What it shows me is that many thousands of hours can be saved by simply building a mold and infusing the large structures both sides, one shot.

.
There's a man thats never built a mold!
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  #41  
Old 09-30-2016, 05:19 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Originally Posted by teamvmg View Post
There's a man thats never built a mold!
Hey

Nowhere did I ever ask about build times. Somehow this thread drifted, I think because Groper is hesitant to do it again. Advice such as building in low wage countries or substantiated comments like Richard posted are welcome.

I enjoy talking about stuff like this but quips like yours don't enlighten me any. What is your experience, please weigh in on why a cnc cut mold can't be erected quickly. I'm dying to hear.

As for me I have about 20 years of carpentry contractor and successful project manager experience on jobs 100M plus and immensely more complex than this catamaran build.

Have you ever been in charge of hundreds of contractors with extreme pressure to perform? That type of experience tends to make a man trust in himself so sorry if I don't cry mama and quit with the idea of building a catamaran.
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  #42  
Old 09-30-2016, 05:20 AM
rustybarge rustybarge is offline
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Originally Posted by jorgepease View Post

Edit 2:
I did a search on world labor costs and then cross checked crime and safety advisories. Vietnam stands out as a winner. I have sent a couple emails to people in the business. It's a long ways from my home but I've always wanted to visit there )
Now that there's a major political shift in policy, How about just a few miles south over the sea from Florida ; Cuba!
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  #43  
Old 09-30-2016, 05:25 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Originally Posted by rustybarge View Post
Now that there's a major political shift in policy, How about just a few miles south over the sea from Florida ; Cuba!
Yeah I thought about that but it's a bit early. I am of Cuban descent and some of my cousins have actually started buying apartments and renovating them but it's really risky. Things could turn in a heartbeat and I would lose everything.

I have an appointment with the director of chamber of commerce for Miami / Colombia today but Vietnam at .60 cents per hour and very safe really looks ideal.
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  #44  
Old 09-30-2016, 05:57 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Originally Posted by teamvmg View Post
There's a man thats never built a mold!
Ok I see you are from Farrier. Can I ask you about this text I took off your site

-- Full production molds may be looked at in the future, but the F-45 can be built much lighter for now, by avoiding the need for gelcoat.

Fortunately the Philippine workers are very efficient, and can achieve an outstanding and more durable seamless finish by hand as shown below: --

So are you saying when you use a mold you have to use gelcoat? And that hand layups are more durable and more seamless than a oneshot infusion of both hulls and bridgedeck.

Please explain. My uncle built molds for 40 years for all the big production companies here in Fl. Im dying to learn what the above text from your site means.
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  #45  
Old 09-30-2016, 04:10 PM
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Richard Woods Richard Woods is offline
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we did seriously consider having a boat built in the Philippines. We had a good quote from a builder who had already built my designs. And we got an acceptable shipping quote

But in the end we decided that we would have to live near the yard to supervise the build, to be on hand for changes that might be needed etc. And we didn't want to do that, even though we were offered a beach front house for the duration of the build

Building in foreign countries is fraught with problems, even if you speak the language and understand the culture.

It's true that a gelcoat and backup skin coat are heavy, often as heavy as the inner structural glass skin on a small hull, but I doubt if they was a noticeable saving on a 45ft boat (Kim's I assume) at .6kg/sqm, certainly the finished boat will not be "much lighter" by leaving off the gelcoat

RW
RW
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