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  #16  
Old 09-23-2016, 09:24 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Yeah wood has it's issues as foam does. My uncle, a long time boat builder (40 yrs) swears by it and hates foam. Says the cost of foam is ruining the industry but I don't see the cost being that different, at least where I have been looking.

The stock price for Grainger plans are on the site. I think they are reasonable compared to the other popular designers, much more than designs by hughes though.

I'm willing to suck up the extra price because the first thing I check is what the designers boats sell for used. This is probably very unscientific but you can def see a pattern and Grainger boats command a good resale value.

The plans will cost a bit more for me because I want to lengthen the hulls a bit, to 50'. 50 just sounds more expensive than 48 lol. The good news is he is already working on a new design which expands the bridgedeck and forward bunks on the wing deck of the Raku 48. If I went with that it wouldn't cost me any more so I would just pay for the extra length of the hulls which he feels might be needed anyway with the extra weight of an electric drive system.

I summed up the weight of two Torqeedo 40 hp outboards and two of the heavy duty batteries plus one genset and it came to around 1700 lbs which I don't think would be too much more than 2 diesel inboards and a genset.

Also back to the cnc, I have been playing around with some softwares and I realized you can import pdf's into illustrator, live trace them automatically and export as autocad files where you can scale and edit them.

So I don't know what the big deal is.

Also I have been comparing Rhino and Fusion 360, Fusion has a free option but Rhino looks so much better.

EDIT - Ok just got affirmation that they will provide whatever files needed for whatever technology from routing to 3d printing.
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  #17  
Old 09-26-2016, 07:30 AM
groper groper is offline
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Originally Posted by jorgepease View Post
Please don't misunderstand, I don't have any attachments to foam or wood, I see the trend and go with it because I plan selling and building more of these and wood, over here, makes it harder to sell.
If you go ahead and build a mold for a 50ft cat, infusion style, i might have to come over there and borrow it for a bit
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2016, 08:19 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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If you go ahead and build a mold for a 50ft cat, infusion style, i might have to come over there and borrow it for a bit
it's kind of sad to pull only one hull from a mold. Maybe I can find somebody who wants the same boat and build two LOL!! Then I could hire you to come over as I don't even know what a fn chainplate is!
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2016, 08:23 AM
groper groper is offline
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im already looking at boats in FL

we could infuse 2 of them in no time... the rest of it takes forever tho, swore id never do it again
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  #20  
Old 09-26-2016, 10:13 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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im already looking at boats in FL

we could infuse 2 of them in no time... the rest of it takes forever tho, swore id never do it again
Man you are a glutton for punishment!! I thought you were joking, what's up with the one you just finished?

Heck if you want to do that I am game ... Would have to talk with Grainger too as I am sure they require a licensing fee but I think that would be a wash because we would be able to leverage better material discounts, rigging etc...

As for time ... If I am looking at what looks like a boat, not pieces of a boat, in less than a couple of months, my spirits and energy will be fine LOL!!!

My goal is 12 mos from the time I start the boatyard rental. Prior to that I will be receiving all materials, drives, whatever, cncing mold frames, all components, infusing daggerboards, cross bar etc... in a warehouse near my current employment.

Once it's sort of like in kit form, Then, I quit and it's full production race, 10-12 hour days, 7 days per week, till completion!
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  #21  
Old 09-26-2016, 10:23 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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.. Actually now that I think about it, if we infused 3 boats we could seriously reduce the cost of our boats and pad our pockets. I am going to ask around with my rich friends to see if I can sell them on a boat. Figure can offer it to them for around 700-800K and they still save a couple hundred thousand over what they would normally pay.
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  #22  
Old 09-26-2016, 12:55 PM
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Tom.151 Tom.151 is offline
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Mold available - craisglist, FL

http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/5779180142.html

He mentioned pictures - so you should be able to get e good look at the final outcome
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  #23  
Old 09-26-2016, 01:13 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom.151 View Post
Mold available - craisglist, FL

http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/5779180142.html

He mentioned pictures - so you should be able to get e good look at the final outcome
That's not a bad deal but I need at least 50'
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  #24  
Old 09-27-2016, 05:56 AM
groper groper is offline
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Im really liking the concept of the SIG45. Have you seen this one?

http://www.lebreton-yachts.com/sig45.php



Goes like stink, with a decent although small for a 45fter, cruising interior... theyve had this thing doing over 27kts now...

Light weight, terrific performance, minimalist style also means alot less to build... all round, simply smart i reckon... the 60ft version would be incredible...

If building a cat like this which uses 2 symmetrical hulls, you only have to build 1 relatively small mold for both hulls of all boats produced. Consider another mold for teh cross deck and beam structure - easy as, its all relatively flat.

The other thing id consider molding is the bulkheads with a glue flange and interior benches and vertical surfaces - all foldable flat panels which could also be pulled off the bridgedeck floor mold.

For teh bulkheads, i was thinking infuse them flat and trim them up neat so they fit perfect. Then remove and wrap a plastic edge around the perimeter and laminate to laminate a glue flange onto it. Fair them and paint them (if they need it) out side the boat and then glue them in finished. Same for the benchtops and verticals. Do them all with glue flanges and install pre finished.

I Found working inside the boat was very slow, not to mension hot, dusty and seemingly stupid. By doing things in a modular fashion i think it would be better and avoid sanding, fairing and painting anything inside the boat if possible.
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  #25  
Old 09-27-2016, 06:26 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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Yeah beautiful boat but I need to live on it! Now the 60 foot cruise version would be my dream boat!! I think that would cost a small fortune to build.

You just detailed what I have been thinking about! Spray interior open masking off glue areas. Would take a little more upfront work but save so much time and wear and tear on the body.

Im also playing with a cabinet system that I built for my house in the keys. It's not built in to boat, it's a welded aluminum frame with a honeycomb glass reinforced concrete, counter top with recesses for really thin maple cutting boards.

Would be ultra modern and not that heavy.

If I come into extra money, the 60 would be my first choice!
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  #26  
Old 09-27-2016, 08:07 AM
groper groper is offline
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I doubt they even sell plans, they are building themselves. It was the concept that I liked and was trying to show.

Minimalist, excellent sailing performance, low cost to build. Etc...

A sail boat must sail well or there's no point in sailing, might as well just build a power boat...

A friend of mine is building a flat panel CNC cut kit boat here, 40ft x 24ft cat... been on it full time 5 years now, still going... its a shed load of work building a boat like that.
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  #27  
Old 09-27-2016, 09:09 AM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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The Schionning, White, and Grainger cats aren't SIG's but from the videos I have seen they do a decent job crossing oceans comfortably. I've read that 10 knts would be a really good average while remaining comfortable and rested. What's nice about the SIG is I bet it sails well in almost no wind!

5 years -full time- on a kit boat? Feel sorry for him, he must be feeling the pain! I'm not a believer and will never again build a boat in pieces or all alone. Having a helper lets you move three or more times as fast.
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  #28  
Old 09-27-2016, 06:33 PM
groper groper is offline
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Yes, the designers you refer to design great yachts, i also like them alot. I guess what I'm trying to say is that a 50ft full bridge deck cat is a mammoth task, no matter how you go about it. I don't know of anyone who has completed one in under 3 years full time. Perhaps of you had 3 highly skilled and experienced builders you might get there in 12 months. But otherwise, I think your underestimating it.

Underestimates are risky because they can leave you short of money and your project isn't worth a fraction of what you've invested in it until it's finished. There is a Schionning for sale here now which is at undercoat stage, structurally finished. He can't move it for $100k... the materials alone are worth more than that, years of labour shed rental down the drain for him... seen it many times before aswell, there was another one I was thinking out last year.

Buying a nearly finished boat or unfinished project is something I've been thinking about as opposed to building from scratch. Great way to cut down the hours required
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  #29  
Old 09-27-2016, 08:06 PM
jorgepease jorgepease is offline
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I agree, it's a lot of work, makes me nervous to even think about it.

However, looking back at my build, I can see how easy it was to be inefficient. A 50' cat is tons more work and presents much more opportunity for that to happen.

Think of all the infusions you had to set up, break down and the tedium in putting it all together. That kind of work has to be done carefully with a lot of checking so it progresses relatively slowly. Then it has to be faired, maybe not the panels but the joints. And that takes gobs of time and energy!

Now imagine this- Build square and level platforms with a centerline ridge for molds to sit on. It's easy at this stage to perfectly space and square the platforms using the ridge line.

CNC the molds to have the corresponding notch. Now it's a quick matter to erect the mold stations. Adding the joists for the bridgedeck at this point is like connecting the dots, fast and easy.

That's a system and it requires enough cash to have all materials purchased and machined up front.

The next thing I see is the schedule. If I infuse tops of hulls and roof first, I can easily move them out of the way. Then I infuse the mains structure, I don't even have to pop it out of the hull until I have attached the rest of the major components. Less moving stuff around, aligning etc ...

If I have a build that looks like a boat in 3 months time, I know I can deal with the next 9 mos of details lol.
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  #30  
Old 09-27-2016, 09:02 PM
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Richard Woods Richard Woods is offline
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I would estimate 7-10,000 hours to get a fully finished 50ft cruising boat. So if you do get more customers to use your moulds they will have a long wait before they can build, especially if they will also be in your shop as it seems you can only build one boat at a time there

Remember when you have done 90% of the build you only have 90% left!

Did you ever see the "Cruising Stuff I'm Into" Sully" build at Green Cove Springs. He didn't get far in 3? years.

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com
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