Buccaneer 24 Trimaran

[bruceb]

I think there is a lot to learn from Ric's boat Bruce

[oldsailor7]

Originally Posted by Phildave

Trying to organize materials to build the B24. Anyone have thoughts or heard of using Hobie mast and sails?

I think you will find that the Hobie rig and sails are not up to the task of resisting the righting power of the 20' wide tri, and will not last long.

If you prowl the boatyards and sailboat brokers--read all the want ads in sailing mags and newspapers, ask at the yacht clubs, advertise for same in local papers and mags ----you will find that there are all sorts of masts, booms rigging and sails available at giveaway prices, which approximate to, or can be re-cut to, the specs given in the Buc 24 plans.

Also:- LEE Sails of Hong Kong have the Buccaneer 24 sail set in their files, and (for now at least) you only need the Main and Jib to start with.

[bruceb]

Phildave, A hobie 18 rig is almost as tall as the "standard" buc 24 rig, but is a much lighter weight spar than the buc was designed with. I have several in my back yard- the mast strength would seem to be marginal for the righting moment of the tri. I have built one rig using an H-18 section with the carbon fiber extension on top of the stock 28' spar (about 35" overall) on a light 23' monohull. It was very bendy, but with enough stays it is still standing The stock hobie sails are a little light for a buc also, I think I would try to find a spar that was more suited to the Buc 24. Bruce

[Phildave]

Thanks for the advice about using the Hobie masts. The problem here in the Philippines provinces is that there are no used masts, sails, or rigging of any kind to be found. Anything metal has to be shipped in. Occasionally, I here of a Hobie mast or parts up in Manila.

[oldsailor7]

Originally Posted by Phildave

Thanks for the advice about using the Hobie masts. The problem here in the Philippines provinces is that there are no used masts, sails, or rigging of any kind to be found. Anything metal has to be shipped in. Occasionally, I here of a Hobie mast or parts up in Manila.

In that case why don't you build your own mast and boom from standard 6061T6 alloy tubing as detailed in the plans.

We did --and it worked fine.

Teardrop sections and rotating masts, together with the expensive fittings for controlling and staying them are not necessary, unless you are going to be using the boat for dedicated racing.

[bruceb]

A wooden or ply/composite mast is still probably the least expensive way to get on the water. The Philippines used to produce some very good quality wooden spars, some of which are still in use in the US. Properly designed, it would be light and plenty strong if you don't mind some added labor. Standing rigging can be adapted from some "stock" shrouds and low stretch line for the adjusters. Crossbeams can also be ply, many tris are, I think the 6061 was used mostly for ease of construction and dismounting. Bruce

[oldsailor7]

Bruce.
You are right of course.

I had a Piver 'Nugget" which had wooden mast and crossbeams.
I sailed it happily for four years without any problems.

Cruising of course. But pleasurable FAST cruising.

If you want a small tri for serious racing, then you need a deep pocket and something like a Corsair/Farrier.

I crew on a friends Corsair 28R. With a sister ship it was the boat to beat. That is until this season when the Tony Grainger Cats came along. Lol.

A Corsair 28R costs AUD$136,000.00 +

Go figure. !!!

[bruceb]

I see people "restoring" fiberglass boats newer than my buc 24, I am not sure what that says about me or my boat. (relic? ) Wood still works, and with modern sail and foil materials and design, our old boats are not that far behind the latest carbon fiber/unobtainuim creations. I long ago learned that someone could always out spend me in the quest for speed, in boats, cars, and airplanes- but so what, I am having fun! I think Crowther really got the basics right, whether it was tank testing or seat of the pants, the boats do work, and are very responsive to modern rig and material upgrades. I feel very lucky to have found one, and would still consider building a new one a reasonable choice. Bruce

[oldsailor7]

I don't appear to have posted the three view of the original BUccaneer 24 on this thread. So here it is.
It is best printed out "Landscape" and scaled up 140% to fit on an A4 page.

[Samnz]

Originally Posted by bruceb

Samnz, (and any others), What sail selection/sizes are you using? I noticed on one of the videos you had two jibs up, and what wind conditions do they work best in? Bruce

Hi Bruce
I have a kevlar Magic 25 jib, which is 15m2. This used to be my number one but I moved the forestay to the stem so got a new 17m2 kevlar non overlapping Jib so the Magic Jib is now my No 2. I would love to run an overlapper but it sheets too wide around the spreaders and going higher but slightly slower is great in W/L racing burning much faster boats of the startline is fun plus VMG is the same as low and fast. My new Jib cars are halfway from the centreline of the boat to the edge of the cabin.

My main is a norths carbon squarehead, approx 27m2. The rig is a bit soft for this sail but it still works ok. Great sail but it sends the bow down very quickly if your not carefull.

I have a fractional Gennaker (not sure on the size) for reaching and when its blowing over 25 knots, and a masthead 75m2 gennaker for up to 25 knots of breeze.

I have tryd a few different reacher setups, the one in the vid you mention (two Jibs) was masthead on the old rig, but didnt fit the new rig and I think masthead would be load up the mast too much so I will be getting a new furling fractional reacher, that will tack to halfway out the prod. Will aim for about 30m2 for this sail, and will use it anywhere from 55 true to 140 true depending on the breeze (50 true in under 10 knots of breeze thru to 140 true in over 30 knots). If I get this sail right hopefully I can ditch the Frac gennaker alltogether.

Next sail on the list after the reacher is an even bigger masthead gennaker as some of the big cats still have a slight edge on me VMG downwind in the light which is annoying me! Might increase the prod from 2m to 3m long...

Whats your sail setup?

[oldsailor7]

Samnz said:- "Might increase the prod from 2m to 3m long..."

Sam --If you do that you will increase the vertical component of the new sails force, which will help to lift the bow, or at least help to negate the bow depressing moment of the tall mainsail.

Some of the sailors here, with tall rigs, are reefing their mains and flying their biggest foresails on downwind courses in windy conditions.
Nat Herreshoff, 140 yrs ago, had long prodders on his Cats which made our present day prodders look like matchsticks.

[oldsailor7]

Herewith the promise of the B24s building instructions.
As before, you can print them down "Portrait" at A4 size, and be able to read them.
Sorry for the line thru them, it must be from a speck of dirt on the rollers.
The actual sheets with the plans are clearer than that---but you get the general Idea.


http://www.oldpilotsairport.com/bucc...uctions_p1.jpg


http://www.oldpilotsairport.com/bucc...uctions_p2.jpg


http://www.oldpilotsairport.com/bucc...uctions_p3.jpg

[bruceb]

Thanks for the posts. With Sam's sail sizes, I see why he can stay with the "fast" cats. I am also impressed that his crew will go out on a windy day I am taking some complete measurements of my boat/sails and will try to post them by next week. I did not have a masthead halyard last season, so my sails were limited to forestay height. I really need the big Gennaker and prod. Bruce

[oldsailor7]

Bruce.
If you are going to really big sail sizes, like Sams tri, then you are going to have to cover your cockpit, judging by the amount of water coming over the boat in Sams video.
Admittedly--rough water.
Perhaps you sail in smoother water.
A nice little streamlined cuddy --like that on "Toy" would do.

[bruceb]

And tearing up $100 bills- we are sailors aren't we? Os7, you are right, a cabin or cuddy will help, and I want one anyway. My boat doesn't seem to be "quite" as wet as Capricorn, but I am not going as fast yet, and I am in smaller waves. I also keep the crew sitting in front of me The wider foredeck on my boat also deflects some of the water climbing the bow. I may just put a canvas dodger on for this season and plan a cabin/crossbeam project for next winter. This season it is just the basics and some new sails, I don't want to miss spring sailing here. Our wind runs out around June. In another area, how do tri's attach the inboard end of the prod? I don't have anything around here to look at or copy. Any pics or details would be very helpful. Bruce