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  #106  
Old 10-02-2009, 06:54 PM
mainsailman mainsailman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsailor7 View Post
Thats a very nice concept,--But---

Where is the bulkhead #4, forward cross beam, crossbeam braces and compression strut, centreboard case and mast step support.

All the major forces pass through bulkhead former #4.
You can't just ignore it.
Also with the cabin accomodation so far forward, it would be very uncomfortable, as the centre of movement in the B24 is just ahead of the companionway bulkhead. I'd like Samnz take on this. He has the experience.

And where are you going to store the sails.
Front bunk space is the usual place.
Toilet is best placed under the aft end of the bunk bottom.

....

Hope this helps with Ideas. 0S7.
Of course it is very helpful, thanks for advices OS7!
Yes, I believe as well - the labor and love could do impossible
Back to concept... Instead of concentrate all of the forces in one point I've distribute them in a few different places, the mast standing on the cabin top, which is enforced by inner structure (the frame #4 and stringer from laminated plywood (it's visible on animation), I moved the crossbeams forward, just before the bunk. Aft cross beams were moved forward again to make the cockpit bigger.
For sails there's a space before forward crossbeams, hatch on the deck (not shown on pictures yet).
I will post tomorrow picture with the internal backbone structure and I hope this will help the discussion
MSm
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  #107  
Old 10-02-2009, 06:56 PM
jamez jamez is offline
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You still have to seal the wood if you use marine ply whether its with epoxy or paint. Its like anything else, you get what you pay for. There have been many fine boats built with exterior grade ply - in fact I have a small Wharram built of it (although not D-fir, which we don't have here) that is over 25 years old. But small trimarans are particularly weight sensitive. Build them heavy and you chew up your payload allowance. To me that is the biggest reason not to use it (D-fir) for something like a B24.
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  #108  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:01 PM
jamez jamez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainsailman View Post
Thanks Samnz, I glad you like it, hope this concept will work. There are few pictures with external view, they're not finished yet (I'm afraid it will be a lot of question about the design modification)
mainsailman, that is some nice graphics work you've done there. The main issue I can see is clearance under your hull step. It will be fine in flat water but in a chop I think you'll get a lot of slap/pounding. If the step spends a lot of time immersed it will add a large amount of resistance.
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  #109  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:03 PM
redreuben redreuben is offline
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Mainsailman, you are destroying the boat with excess weight and windage! Are you now going to expand the hulls at waterline to carry the weight?
Why not just build a Scarab?
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  #110  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:16 PM
mainsailman mainsailman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redreuben View Post
Mainsailman, you are destroying the boat with excess weight and windage! Are you now going to expand the hulls at waterline to carry the weight?
Why not just build a Scarab?
I'm going to build B24 by original plan anyway, because I love the design, I'm just trying to learn something new. Oops, looks like I'm on wrong thread
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  #111  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:20 PM
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oldsailor7 oldsailor7 is offline
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Douglas Fir --AKA Oregan, is strong and HEAVY. It rots quickly and easily in FRESH water, but not in seawater.

I built my Piver "Nugget" (1963-4) in good one side exterior grade Douglas Fir. It was glassed all over, painted on the out side,and painted on the inside.

Sailed every weekend (in Summer), and lived aboard on holidays for four years.

I was experimenting with boat coatings at that time and explored the Vinyl
paints, sucessfuly using them on the decks,in conjunction with f/glas flyscreen material as non skid.
Epoxies (except for dental work) did not exist then.

The 1/4" fir ply worked well and where painted had no problems. the bilges below the floorboards were another matter. The rainwater getting into the bilges turned the fir ply black very quickly and it was a pain to have to soak out the underfloor areas with Cuprinol every spring to prevent structural damage.

When i built my Buccaneer 24 I used a cheap mahogany 3 ply called Samba. I coated it outside in epoxy tar, painted over with white marine paint.
This was just part of the "Learning Curve".
The Epoxy tar was a nasty, sticky,heavy stuff which killed my rotary sander
It was very tough though and resisted dings and scrapes very well.

By the time I built the Buccaneer 28 I had developed Bote-Cote epoxy, and it was coated inside and out with this thin material. F/Glass tape was only used on the hull seams. This boat was built using marine mahogany ply and never had a maintenance problem.

My recomendation is --never go cheap on your boats construction materials, because you will only regret it later. This is not to say you shouldn't shop around for the best price. Buy in bulk of possible.

Just my 2c worth. OS7.
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  #112  
Old 10-02-2009, 07:20 PM
mainsailman mainsailman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamez View Post
mainsailman, that is some nice graphics work you've done there. The only issue I can see is clearance under your hull step. It will be fine in flat water but in a chop I think you'll get a lot of slap/pounding. If the step spends a lot of time immersed it will add a large amount of resistance.
That was mine main concern actually. The question is what is optimal clearance?
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  #113  
Old 10-02-2009, 11:32 PM
samfl samfl is offline
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Does anyone have or know of a website of someone chronicling their build?
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  #114  
Old 10-02-2009, 11:53 PM
Samnz Samnz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsailor7 View Post
Also with the cabin accomodation so far forward, it would be very uncomfortable, as the centre of movement in the B24 is just ahead of the companionway bulkhead. I'd like Samnz take on this. He has the experience.

And where are you going to store the sails.
I wouldnt expect anyone to be sleeping while sailing, if they were it might be uncomfortable but Farriers 8.2 has foward bunk.
I guess the beauty of these boats is being able to anchor in very shallow water when cruisng so when anchored it should be calm and where the bunk is shouldnt matter.

A bigger hatch in the floats would solve the storage issue?
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  #115  
Old 10-03-2009, 10:18 AM
Joe Moore Joe Moore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainsailman View Post
Thanks, Joe Moore
So far I'm trying to find a workshop where to build the boat, I think I could start probably no earlier than next summer. Of course I will update about the progress.
There are workshops to be found - I know a guy who got an old print works near his flat in Bethnal Green and for a reasonable rent I believe. The place was huge - easily big enough to work on and store several boats, so there's definitely places out there even in the middle of London!
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  #116  
Old 10-03-2009, 11:57 AM
LucD LucD is offline
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OldSailor7
You are not being fair. You are comparing painted Fir with epoxy coated marine ply. Of course the Fir won't be any good if not repainted almost every years, but if sealed in epoxy . also for the same thickness with almost any other ply, Fir is much stiffer, I might be wrong but for boat, it should be very good thing.

As a reference, there is a farmer near by that made big boxes out of 1/2" fir epoxied sealed that he use for emergency irrigation. He wanted to changed them after one year because they were always outside. That was 7 years ago and since then he never did any repair or maintain them.

But by all means, if one can afford the best, go for it.
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  #117  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:22 PM
bruceb bruceb is offline
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fir ply construction

My buc- built around 1974 and used and wet sailed ever since, is built mostly of epoxy coated fir ply and has had very little rot. I repaired some places where water had entered (around the water-stays and on the decks of the floats in particular) but over all, the fir is still in good shape. I do have some rot in frame members (I don't know the kind of wood) and some thinner bulkheads and liners made of "door skin" ply. The fir makes my boat a little heavy, but it has been durable. That said, I haven't found good quality fir in my area, and if I had to pay to ship it in, a good marine grade mahogany doesn't coat any more and would make a better boat. Fir also "checks" badly and messes up any paint job. Bruce
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  #118  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:33 PM
bruceb bruceb is offline
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Bigger buc and performance

Mainsailman, I have been watching my waterline when the boat is loaded with crew, and I think you are pushing the limits on the displacement of the buc 24. I estimate my ready to sail weight around 1500 lbs, and with three crew (around 450 lbs) I think the boat is about "full". Crowther said 2000 lbs total, and I think that is about right. The 24 doesn't usually pick its center hull out of the water, and the waves would be hitting the bottom of your extentions most of the time. I don't think you would like the ride.
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  #119  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:51 PM
bruceb bruceb is offline
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24 Race day

I had my 24 in several races last weekend in around 12 -15 kts wind in fairly smooth water. I was in the starts with one good Corsair 24 mk 2 and several of our fast local sport boats- 4 melges 24s and 3 elliot 7.7s plus several others up to 30 feet. On about one mile up-wind legs the buc had a 1/4-1/2 knot speed advantage and out-pointed all the boats that were out. They all have very good sails and I was using a very old short hoist jib. I still have a lot of tuning to do, but I was very pleased with the new board and the Buc 24. Bruce
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  #120  
Old 10-14-2009, 11:50 AM
LucD LucD is offline
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Here's a quiz question !
1. What is the difference between the Kraken and the Buccaneer series?
2. What model and/or seize in each series?
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