Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Hot!

Our hot season is just starting, and it has been over 90 degrees F every day this week. My crew thinks the bimini is the best feature. (it only weighs 10lbs and folds down or removes very easily for racing- sometimes) Diego, the mast was added by the previous owner, and is a complete mast and base from a Stiletto 23/27 catamaran. It is a "proper" multi section, fairly large and stiff but not too heavy. 36' overall and about 65-70 lbs complete with the ends, spreaders and diamonds and some halyards. I do not know the original manufacture, but the Stiletto owners assoc still has a web site. I am sure it is not a "cheap" rig but it really works well. B

 

Hot!

We know all about hot here. We hit 99 last Wed, 98 on Thursday but today it was a nice 96. Don't forget that 85 to 90% humidity to throw in there too.

 

Bruce. Have you got any more information on that B26 yet??

 

suprises

OS, he is working on the 26- it needed the deck hardware and windows re-bedded so he is tasking his time and doing it right. I will probably go look at it in about a week and get some detail pics. He and I both have to work- I hate that, it gets in the way of playing with boats. B

 

Launch and Recovery

After a year of putting the pieces back together on a neglected Buc, I had a successful launch yesterday. She sat perfectly on her lines, and I thought I was in business. The initial euphoria was then followed by the immediate realization that the center hull was taking on water quickly as we towed it to the mooring. I jumped on board and found six inches of water on the cabin floor. The boat settled nicely on the two amas, and we towed her back to the trailer, and hauled her out. A big disappointment for sure.

Now it is time to fix the problem.

While reconditioning the boat I spent a little time looking at and repairing what I thought were largely cosmetic faults with the dagger board trunk. I saw nothing to indicate a major problem. When I hauled the boat yesterday, water came poring out of the forward section of the trunk. The trunk case is angled and glassed to the main bulkhead assembly. There must be a void between the angled trunk case and the bulkhead. I can only guess this is where the problem is.

I will email pictures shortly, but I think I am now in the dagger board trunk business.

1. Should I build a vertical dagger board trunk? I remember a couple comments to this effect on this forum.
2. Does anyone have an image of what the trunk should look like according to the plans? My boat is made out of foam cored fiberglass, but seems to follow the general plan specifications.
3. Can you point me to any other trunk construction that may be appropriate?

Lessons learned:
- You get what you pay for on craigslist!
- I probably should have guessed something was up, when the dagger trunk was filled with expandable foam, and the bildge had four inches of mud in it. To say nothing of the marine snails.
- If this was a monhull, I would be on a salvage dive today!

 

Trunks are a hole in your boat

Sorry about the problem HH. I just had a fine weekend sailing my Buc. When I got my boat, I had to build a new dagger board (too many oyster beds had taken their toll) so I built a longer board with a max 16" cord- so the board would go in the trunk vertical and not sweep back. My trunk had minor leaks and some rot so I epoxy slathered a 1/2"x1 1/8" spline, wrapped some glass on it and forced it into the rear and another one for the front of my trunk (from the water "inner" part of the trunk). Crude but effective. I filled the unused rear of the trunk with a block of foam and have a fairing flap on the bottom of the hull. The boat really sails better with the new board. I think the Buc's foils were not up to modern standards. The angled board might provide some grounding protection, but it really compromises the performance. I think a vertical trunk will be a big improvement, and I plan on building and installing one this next winter. The trunks are very simple, just a square board front and back with ply for the sides. The whole assembly is then let in to the keel panel/stringers. A trunk like I have built for my float boards would work just as well and eliminate the rot issue- and ALL wood trunks rot or are eaten by worms sooner or later I will try to scan the trunk detail off the plans. B

 

board con't

Bruce, thanks for the advice. I built a new board as well, following some of your earlier advice. I do like the idea of getting through the season by making something work. I just peaked under the hull again, and it still not clear where the water is coming in, there is no indication of unusual damage. I has to be a catastrophic failure at the seams.

Thanks for scanning the trunk plans, I am interested how it attaches to the main bulkhead.

 

trunk scan

This is all there is, it might not be the same as yours. The "empty" space between the bulkhead and the front angled vertical board in the trunk looks like a really bad place for rot to start- no access at all. I think my trunk has 3/4x3/4 vertical strips where it meets the forward bulkhead, but I will have to look at my boat to make sure. It is kind of hard to see with everything in place. B

 

Bruce,
Thanks for posting the scan of the trunk. Looks to be copied in every detail on my Bucc, just in fiberglass.

What do you mean by 'let in'? How is the trunk actually secured to the keel and stringers? Is it fastned, glued and glassed in place?

A vertical trunk seems like a pretty simple solution, and may in the end be superior then tracking down and fixing my current problem. Your ama trunks look like you had the foil section in profile. Do you have any additional pictures of build process?

Best,
Carl

 

Trunks are always problematic, infamous, like keels, canting keels, rudder cases and anything else that sticks cantilevered into water and pressure. They have to be watched ... all the time, especially after groundings - and leaks are very hard to detect.
One thing that was glaringly apparent when I first sailed Miranda in original form, the boat was out of balance, meaning let the tiller go and the boat snapped up to windward in a flash. We stood the mast vertical, no rake, no change. Made sure the tansom rudder was vertical, no difference. Tacking you had to have a passenger hold the tiller hard across while you adjusted, sheeted headsails. It was okay once the boat was moving on course ... but one moments inattention (look below for something) and you'd be in irons again. Soon after we ripped out the leaking, spraying at speed, central board and case and put asymmetric angled boards into the floats, (in fibreglass cases, laminated over plastic round the foils) forward of the original central position in the main hull. Theoretically this should have increased (if that was possible) greater imbalance problems.This has all been covered earlier on this thread. Sorry. And then a new, balanced dagger rudder set through the extended transom after sections. Result: perfect hands off helm balance. Plus better windward performance plus lift from foils, more speed etc. Now some of you here (OS7) say you have never had that weather helm problem on your originally setup B24's ... which I find odd compared to our experiences. Anyway, Carl, my point is, if you place a central, vertical dagger in the main hull, you're going have to shift the board as far aft as possible in the original case ... because if placed forward against the bulkhead, weather helm is going to be increased.
Interested to hear what all you blokes have to say about this. Cheers.

 

balance

After I replaced the transom hung rudder and the dagger board, my boat is one of the best handing and balanced boats around- including some good mono sport boats. It tacks with or with out a jib and can be steered with one or two fingers in most all conditions. The board is vertical and as far forward as possible, and I re-mounted the rudder axis vertical also. The rudder blade is carefully balanced fore and aft and retained in that position. I messed with the mast rake for final tuning. With the main trimmed properly, I can walk away from the helm long enough to trim or secure things and still be on course. It will be interesting to see how the A-boards in the floats effect things. B

 

That's very interesting, Bruce, about your board being mounted forward and yet you still have excellent balance. I'm just wondering whether the difference between a pivoting centreboard (and I never liked them) to that of a vertical and properly designed, profile and cross section, dagger board is the reason for the better balance. Or maybe, you can really get away with murder on spread out multihull platforms, defying all the correct and established theories. Can't wait to hear of your new foils in comparison to your earlier setup. Hurry up, mate.

 

Sort of seems like you guys are talking about similar C of Es. If Bruce moved his rudder forward and the dagger is a bit aft because the trunk is now straight the conclusion might be the C of E stayed in about the same place because the rudder was contributing to the lateral plane.

 

more balance

Gary, I have got to think it is some of both. I built my long board with the top cut away aft so when down it could be adjusted fore and aft- from the "stock" swept aft position to almost vertical right behind the mast. I found I could "balance" the boat in any position of board rake with small mast rake adjustments, but in racing I found it definitely goes to weather best with the board almost vertical. My "bench mark" boats are the Melges 24s- we have a large fleet of them and we are about equal up wind. In practice, I think long skinny flat sided hulls are much like an old square rigger and very forgiving of changes in center of effort. Rudders are not forgiving! I have "fixed" some really evil handing production boats by re-engineering their rudders. Rudders hung on sloping transoms are particularly prone, but angled rudder posts are also guilty. A "trailing" rudder feels like severe weather helm but is not at all the same and moving the rig around doesn't help and can cause the boat to be even more un-balanced with some really bad habits. Snatching the tiller out of your hand in turns is often the first clue. B

 

rudder position

Cavalier, I didn't change the rudder position, it is still hung on the transom, but the pivots are now vertical. Its CE is almost the same as the last rudder and a little forward of the original transom hung rudder. I did use a somewhat larger blade (off a 22' production mono) but it is nothing special and the boat can be balanced with it almost out of the water. The helm gets really heavy with it kicked back, but the boat sails about the same. I think the tri platform is very forgiving, my main is a foot longer on the boom with lots of roach, my starboard float is several inches bow down compared to the port, but the boat is almost the same on both tacks and still has good manners. B