Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

[danskram]

Al, Yeh I need a power stapler and power planer.
Dan

[Oceannavagator]

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com

Has an economy resin. A 6 gallon kit is $312 bucks they also sell brand name stuff as well.
Mike

[oldsailor7]

Originally Posted by danskram

Al, Yeh I need a power stapler and power planer.
Dan

Modern power staplers can be rented and consist of a self contained portable unit powered by a compressed gas cartridge. A far cry from the electric powered pressure tank unit on wheels joined to the staple gun by a pressure hose. It was unwieldy I know, but far better than hand hammering in thousands of bronze ringnails as we did on my first 24' tri,--a Piver Nugget.
Electric planer is an absolute must, unless you want to develop a mighty forearm.

[bruceb]

My buc 24 is 35+ years and was built in Canada almost exactly to the plans. (I think by a friend of OS) The epoxy has done a very good job of preventing rot, but I think using rot resistant marine ply would be a good idea, particularly in the bulkheads and decks. (power-ply* and others) Mine spent most of the last 25 years in the water in Maryland- warm in the summer, freezing in the winter and most of the damage has been from rain water. The cabin and decks rotted and were replaced, the bottoms of the hulls are in very good condition. I have made several repairs and a new dagger board on mine using Raka brand (from florida) epoxy and have been pleased so far. Price and service is also good. Their brand seems to work particularly well in warmer southern US weather and gives you plenty of lay-up time. I don't like to hurry I made a new hull bulkhead from OS's plans and it fit perfectly!! They are easy to work from once you see what Crowther intended. If any builder has any detail questions, just ask. I do have some ideas for changes/modifications and I am still trying to engineer a good folding system. Right now though, I am just sailing mine and enjoying it. Bruce

[oldsailor7]

To those of you who may be inexperienced in the use of a power planer, don't set the blades to cut too deep, and practice a bit on scrap wood before attacking your pride and joy.

A good tip to speed things up is to attach a piece of wood, or alloy angle, to the platen of your planer so that it rests on an adjoining stringer when you are cutting the angle on the chines and keels. Makes a perfect chamfer each time.

Cheers. OS7.

[Oceannavagator]

I do have some ideas for changes/modifications

Bruce,
If you have ideas for improvements I'd certainly like to hear them. Since I'm in the planning and procuring stages. One thing I belive I'll change is the rigging with the new non stretch rope instead of wire. It's much lighter and looks more suitable for a boat that gets derigged several times per year for trailering.
Mike

[oldsailor7]

Yes Mike.

IMO that is the modern way to go.

If anyone wants to learn about it ---just Google "Dyneema".

[bruceb]

The buc 24 sails quite well as designed, but the rig (and rigging)and the foils are primitive and can be improved with little difference in cost, at least here in the US. I priced new aluminum pipe for the cross beams, and at 600 to 800 dollars they would cost, composite beams really start to make good sense- probably lighter, stronger and maybe less money. They can also free up cabin and cockpit space, and should be easier to make fold or dismount. Are you planing your boat as a cruiser or?? I think Crowther did a really wonderful job of keeping the Buc 24 easy and inexpensive to build and still provide good all round performance. Almost every modification I have considered adds to build time, weight, and/or cost, so they have to be analyzed very carefully. Of course, I am going to keep changing mine Bruce

[oldsailor7]

Bruce said --[quote]:- "and the foils are primitive and can be improved with little difference in cost"[quote].

Most of the home built foils I have seen can be improved at NO cost if the builder gives the proper attention to these very important appendages. It is not enough to round the leading edge and taper the trailing edge a bit, leaving the rest flat.

It is essential that boards and rudders be given a suitable foil section. Often this section is not even supplied by the designer.

The Board and Rudder have very different jobs to do. The boards job is to resist leeway at minimum drag and this it does best at an angle of attack of about 4deg, and so can have a slim supersonic section.

The rudder however has a more difficult job, as it's angle is varying all the time at much greater angles. Thus it requires a thicker section, with a rounder nose, to enable the water flow to remain attached to its surface.
With surface piercing (overhanging) rudders, like the the one shown on the stock B24, air entrainment can occur at high speed and large rudder angles. This of course causes the rudder to become ineffective, usually resulting in a wild broach. (Ask Samz).

Small boundary layer "fences" are very effective, as they generate a vortex which captures entrained air and spins it away to the rear of the rudder, safeguarding the waterflow of the rudder surface further down. On my B24 there were three fences down the rudder blade made from thin aluminium angle 1/2" wide, screwed to the rudder cheeks with countersunk head screws. Worked very well.

I remember a builder of a Buccaneer 33 who thought shaping the rudder was "unecessary" and simply band sawed his rudder blank from a piece of 2" plank and left it at that.

Rectangular section ???--Bad News.

[Oceannavagator]

Bruce said

I priced new aluminum pipe for the cross beams, and at 600 to 800 dollars they would cost

You need to shop a little more Bruce, I've got them new at less than 400 bucks locally.
As far as the foils are concerned, I can't imagine anyone not putting a NACA section on them both. I think that they need to be a little thicker and I have yet to see a daggerboard or a keel for that matter that wasn't improved with an end plate.
Rig wise, I'll do some research on what aluminum mast section that is appropriate, but for me the boat will be just a quick little boat to sail and weekend in, I'm not interested in formal racing. I'm planning to keep the boat on a trailer rigged up during sailing season and just slap it in the water on the weekend. This saves about two thirds of the slip fee and 99 % of the wear and tear on the boat. It also allows for easier maintenance.
I've read about guys who have; lengthened the hull, dropped the chine line lower aft, added 5 feet onto the stick, wanted to build the boat from aluminum, wanted to build out of foam sandwich and some even wilder stuff. At what point do you say "I bought the wrong plans?" As it is, the buc is a small, easy to build inexpensive boat that sails pretty well, I think it ought to be built pretty much like it's designed.
Mike

[bruceb]

Mike, you are right on the pipe prices, I had checked last year and al has really dropped since then I had included a 6' piece of 4" od 1/4' wall to replace the wooden joint plugs- a worthwhile up-grade. Mine have gotten really loose over the years. On the mods, I don't agree. (this is a forum) While the Buc 24 is a good boat as built, it is a 40 year old design that can be improved. Easily. I have been sailing mine for a year and experimenting and studying other designs, and I think that the simplicity and easy construction that Crowther intended can be kept and he would have probably made about the same changes if he designed the Buc today. Most of his later designs and almost all "modern" tri's have longer high volume floats, the buc's can be extended one "station" (just over two feet) and gain some much need forward reserve flotation. My bows dip just a little too easily for my taste, and I am used to a hobie 16. The transom extention is a little more involved, but also worth while, for a cruiser or a racer. The extra volume aft would help keep from dragging the transom with the usual oversized outboard and two adults in the cockpit and reduce the tendency to hobby-horse that the 24 is prone. Both mods together would use less than two sheets of ply total, add 80-100lbs, and about a day and a half to construction. Crowther was trying to keep the 24 to three sheets long, but today we have much better scarfing tools available and the time and material is minimal for the results. I really like my boat, but I will keep changing it as I have time. I have included some pics of the dagger board I built, it is a big change in performance, more than I expected. I have about 25hrs and $200 in it- well worth the time and money. Bruce

[Oceannavagator]

A super job on the board Bruce. Is that a fiberglass stiffening strip in the middle of the board?
Sorry, I'm just an old welding engineer and people who change my specs just drive me crazy. I guess some of my 40 year old work could stand a little updating by now too. How about giving me some insight on the mods that you would do if you were building from scratch. And by the way, where do you sail in Atlanta?
Mike, in Richmond.

[Manie B]

Have you guys got a web site to buy these plans?
Buccaneer24

because

The business has evolved and grown in recent years, and as a result of this, Incat Crowther are no longer able to offer sailing vessel design or technical support for sailing vessels less than 60ft. Stock plans are no longer available

http://www.incatcrowther.com/Display...tegory=Sailing

i cant seem to find it

thanks guys

[danskram]

Manie, do a search for Buc 24 plans on this forum or go to ( 24" Buccaneer Trimaran Plans), or just send a Private Message to "oldsailor7". He has the plans, I just bought mine and they're really nice ..
Dan

[bruceb]

Thanks Mike. I am an old boat dealer and I LIKE to change things I like people that pay attention to details too. Yes, that is a 1/4" x 2" fiberglass batten on each side of a board, and the light colored areas are foam. The board weighs 24lbs finished with 3 layers of glass. It is 7'5" overall with a cord of 15" and 1 1/4" thick. It could be lighter, but I was too cheap to use carbon and I had to add some filler I didn't get it quite right the first try, but it is very fair now. Bruce