Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

how tight?

My boat has been loose- the wooden crossbeam plugs were just worn a lot. They could have been tightened with filler, but I have replaced all of them with aluminum pipe sleeves. I have been running the side stays tight enough to pick up the floats some, but not so tight that my mast won't rotate easily. The rear end of the floats would move about 3", the fronts were a little tighter. I would prefer not to depend on the stay tension to keep the floats up- I like to keep the rig snug but not tight. I depend on the main sheet tension to keep the forestay tight. A crossbeam like Capricorn's would be best, but I have installed new 1/4" side stays for now that I trust so I can run some more tension. The crossbeams seem able to hold the floats, at least at rest. Bruce

 

New Buc building

New buc building

Hey guys,

I am planning to build a Buccaneer 24 and I just received the plans from e-bay ad.

I‘ve been following the threads and there are many mods that should be improved easily in a new construction:

1. Extend the floats by 2 ft. just following the oldsailor7 method;
2. Plumb the bows of main hull and floats;
3. Extend the transom;
4. New crossbeam, like one that Samnz designed for Capricorn.
5. Swing centerboard;
6. Main traveler mounted over crossbeam.


Suggestions or comments are welcome.

lgenova

 

changes

Igenova, I am sure there are several opinions on this but I think the first question is what you intend to do with the boat. The racers and cruisers have different needs. The Buc 24 is not "wrong" as designed, and any changes take away from the simplicity and ease of construction. From what I have learned with mine, I would change some things for my use, but only as necessary. I have a tall "racing" sized rig and I could use the longer floats, most modern tris have longer floats with more volume- the ones on the new 22' farrier look great. The stock floats could be extended, and I have considered building a set for my boat, but a newer design would be the best. The stock rig probably doesn't need them. I wouldn't plumb the bows- the main hull's bow is out of the water most of the time and plumb bows sometimes have steering issues, and they would be a lot of re-designing. Bruce

 

Well, I've said this before ---and I'll say it again.
I built, owned, cruised and raced a Buccaneer 24 a long time ago.

If I did it again I wouldn't change a thing---EXCEPT:-

I would add a bowsprit so that I could eliminate the spinnaker pole and fly a nice assymetric.

I would make the same daggerboard which I had on mine. A simple rectangular planform board, set vertical in a box with seals top and bottom. The EXPOSED area of the board = to 2% of the projected sail area. IE:- approx 1'3" wide and 3' long. a good symetrical section is NACA 0008. The upper part of the board should be capped so that when the board is fully down, the two pieces of 1 x 12 bracing the board box to the mid side stringers and the rear corners tied into frame #5, make a handy seat for the cook at the galley immediatly aft of the mast step at frame #4.

When I built mine, I did it in company with a friend in the TMCC and we bought our materials and sails together. Our boats were identical in every way --except he built the plans centreboard and I built the above board. In racing we were equal on all headings except I could always beat him to weather. I put that down to my bigger area board, Thats all.

On thinking about Sams experiences I don't think I would extend the float bows at all. I suspect that if they were longer and they drove into the back of a wave the extra leverage of the longer decking may be just enough to trip the boat over the bows. In Sams experience the bows submerged, in some cases nearly up to the mast foot, but the boat just popped up again. (Correct me if I am wrong Sam).

If you want to go to the extra trouble, by all means extend the keel 1'6" to the rear. Add a sloping transom. Install the alternate spade rudder and hang a SMALL outboard motor on a standard motor bracket on the transom.

Don't forget any further alterations just add weight and extra wetted surface, all of which detract from the performance of this wonderful little Trimaran.

 

Thank you guys,

Yes, I'm intending to go race. I'm a HC 16 racer but the age (50) doesn’t let me go as 30 or 20 years ago. I'm located in the northeast of Brazil and we can go sail all days in the year. Naturally there will be a point when you want a little more comfort especially with the family when off race. The idea of making those modifications is, also, to give a modern look without too much work. I know that the boat as stock has a fantastic performance, but I’m starting from scratch so why do not try some mods.

I am planning to put a taller mast with a square top just to feel tasty of blood in the mouth .

I know that this arrangement is not for a beginner and capsizing a 24 ft is not the same as HC 16 (I’ve done a lot ).

When I mean plumb the bow is to give it 5 to 10 degree from the keel.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41531&stc=1&d=1268870244


Now I’m starting to cut the frames of the floats.

The cost for all timber and ply for 2 floats was near US$260.00.

6 sheet - 3/16 ply.
1 sheet – ¼ ply .
170 m - assorted sizes of timber.

I don’t know the volume of epoxy will be used for 2 hulls but a KIT of 5 Kg here is around US$100.00.

I will try to put a log some were in the web with photos.

lgenova

 

build details

Igenova, Your lumber prices are a little less less than ours- it pays to be nearer the source. I think you will use some more epoxy, coating the skins soaks up quite a bit of material and is very important. I think the number one piece of advice would be to keep the boat light! Crowther designed in enough strength, don't be tempted into "making it a little stronger", many of these boats have survived years of hard use and neglect with out breaking- just as designed. What are your "normal" wind conditions? The stock 24, even with my tall, over canvased rig is a lot harder to "stuff" than your Hobie. I still sail a H-16 that has been over many times but I haven't come close with the Buc-- YET It has taken me a season of racing to get my attention away from the leeward bow and start looking where I am going and just trust the boat. About crossbeams-- I have the complete rear crossbeam/water stay system off of my boat for some rot repair. I have weighed all of the parts, and the total is about 90 lbs, which I think is quite a lot. It is simple and has been reliable, my boat has been in almost constant use for over 30 years and even with considerable rot under the center of the rear beam, nothing was moving. Only the outer tubes were loose from the wood plugs. I think a properly engineered beam would be stiffer and weigh less than the stock 4.7 lbs a foot. I don't know about cost. If you are going to race, you will need the rear traveler although it does get in the way of the tiller. I find I need to have the main car several inches to weather to keep the boom near the center line in max point trim. The Buc with modern sails trims out a lot like your H-16, but it tacks easily in all conditions, goes up-wind with the best of the 30' monos, and has "multi" speed off wind, a very nice combination. Bruce

 

Thank you bruce,

Yes, the price of lumber is not critical here, as we have a vast source and varieties.

Our average wind speed is about 10 knots with low waves. I love sail H-16 and fly a hull with trapeze. I don’t know if a B-24 can beat H-16 on ideal conditions. May be on chop and strong wind.

The position of the traveler is a question that is in my mind. I think that open aft cockpit should be applied and the tiller goes bellow traveler. The Samnz’s crossbeam seams to be strong enough for the righting moment forces. Since I don’t need to fold it I can make a good reinforcement with the frames and hull.

lgenova

 

More sail

With your wind conditions, I would think a rig about the size of mine and Samnz would be fun. I have the stock fore triangle and the main is about 6 feet taller- a nice fractional set-up. I often use a self-tacking jib that makes handling very easy and I still have plenty of power. The open transom with the tiller under seems right on these boats, Samnz has some pictures on one of the Buc 24 forums showing his. I think you will find you are faster than a H-16 at least some of the time. Bruce

 

Igenova.
If you complete another two posts I will be able to PM you about a simple, but effective mainsheet/traveller arrangement which does not form a barracade across the top of the rear crossbeam.

 

Thank you oldsailor7,

I will appreciate to have this arrangement.

Lgenova.

 

And I’m looking forward with impatience to break a bottle of champagne

 

bruceb

I have seen those pictures from Samnz. I will try to order a main sail like yours from NS.
I had read many times that forum related with this impressive little boat and found many ideas and good references.

Thank you guys.

lgenova

 

IGENOVA.
When you got your plans off of E-Bay, did you just get the 6 sheets of the plans ---or did you get anything extra.??

 

I've got the 6 sheets and 1 extra sheet with a diagram of other rudder.

If you want I can PM you with a copy.

lgenova

 

Building notes

Since several Buc's are under construction, I have some things I have learned from mine. Crowther's plans are quite good in general, but some detail improvements have been developed in the last forty years. First, the bulkhead plywood should be left about 3/8 to 1/2 inch back from the edges of the frames like the current "stitch and glue" designs. An epoxy fillet can then be used to fill and seal the ply end grain and strengthen the joint. Every one of my bulkheads has at least some rot that all started where the ply edge butted against the hull. The new way is better suited to epoxy construction. Next, the plans show drains next to the keel, but the next two fore and aft stringers form an upward facing "V" that traps dirt and water against the the frames and outer skin. Either extra drain holes and/or an epoxy "puddle" on the uphill side at the frames needs to be added. The bottom of the crossbeam forms another "V" that needs to have a drain hole added. Water will get in/around/under the alloy tubes and it needs somewhere to drain through the center of the wooden crossbeam mount. The four crossbeam mounting bolts also need cross-drilled drain holes low at the bottom of the wooden beam. The floats are especially prone to rot as it is hard to provide enough ventilation, I would pre-treat all wood in them and provide drainage for water that will! get in around the mounting bolts- easy to do now, almost impossible after the deck is on. I don't have a cabin, but apparently there are some rot-prone areas in them, maybe someone can add to this? Bruce