Boat Design Forums  |  Boat Design Directory  |  Boat Design Gallery  |  Boat Design Book Store  |  Thanks to Our Site Sponsors

Go Back   Boat Design Forums > Design > Multihulls
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-07-2010, 09:31 PM
Doug Lord's Avatar
Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
Flight Ready
 
Join Date: May 2009
Rep: 838 Posts: 5,123
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Americas Cup: Advantage Alinghi?

From Scuttlebutt-this just seems so very wrong:

But, this being AC 33, first a report from the room. The International Jury
has finally handed down its final decision on measurement and it is not hard
to see why it took so long. Indeed, when I saw the Jury driving out of their
headquarters on Saturday, I was surprised they were not still holding their
noses. The bottom line is that, although Justice Kornreich ruled, based on
the recommendation of three of the Jury members, that the boats had to be
measured with water ballast on board, the Jury has ratified an absurd
measurement procedure that turns Justice Kornreich's decision on its head.
How does that work? The Jury has ruled that, although water has to be
distributed equally from side to side, it does not have to be equally
distributed fore and aft.

Thus, Alinghi can pump all its water ballast to specially constructed stern
tanks, which will then sink the stern until the boat does a wheelie and the
LWL is brought under 90 feet. Of course, the boat could never sail in that
trim under any race condition and the stern tanks will probably not be used
to any substantial extent while actually sailing. Clearly, this is not a
case of exploiting a loophole in a rule. It is an example of ratifying
breaking any rational understanding of the way to implement the rule in
order to produce the exact opposite of the rule.

Why? Alinghi cannot comply with the Deed with any water ballast and cannot
sail without water ballast. The Jury is simply not going to force Alinghi to
comply with the Deed, knowing that it would decide the Match. It would have
been simpler to just come out and say that, regardless of Justice
Kornreich's ruling, Alinghi can measure without water ballast and then add
water while racing. Sailors should think twice before complaining about
Supreme Court justices running this game, rather than sailors. The inmates
cannot seem to run the asylum very well either.
-- Read on:
http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/07/cf/#p57
__________________
yes, it is a revolution
---"So (yet) another new world begins."
Andrew Hurst, editor of Seahorse magazine, August,2011
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-07-2010, 11:12 PM
jehardiman jehardiman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Rep: 1623 Posts: 1,483
Location: Port Orchard, Washington, USA
Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends
We're so glad you could attend
Come inside! Come inside!
There behind a glass is a real blade of grass
be careful as you pass.
Move along! Move along!

Come inside, the show's about to start
guaranteed to blow your head apart
Rest assured you'll get your money's worth
The greatest show in Heaven, Hell or Earth.
You've got to see the show, it's a dynamo.
You've got to see the show, it's rock and roll ....

Right before your eyes we pull laughter from the skies
And he laughs until he cries then he dies then he dies
Come inside the shows about to start
Guaranteed to blow your head apart

You gotta see the show
It's a dynamo
You gotta see the show
It's rock and roll


Soon the Gypsy Queen in a glaze of Vaseline
Will perform on guillotine
What a scene! What a scene!
Next upon the stand will you please extend a hand
to Alexander's Ragtime Band
Roll up! Roll up! Roll up!
See the show!

Performing on a stool we've a sight to make you drool
Seven virgins and a mule
Keep it cool. Keep it cool.
We would like it to be known the exhibits that were shown
were exclusively our own,
All our own. All our own.
Come and see the show! Come and see the show! Come and see the show!
See the show!

(Emerson/Lake)
__________________
A vessel is nothing but a bunch of opinions and compromises held together by the faith of the builders and engineers that they did it correctly. Therefor the only thing a Naval Architect has to sell is his opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-08-2010, 04:20 AM
terhohalme's Avatar
terhohalme terhohalme is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Rep: 478 Posts: 484
Location: Kotka, Finland
They are waiting for the wind now to start. Huge monsters!
__________________
Only shared knowledge can grow.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-08-2010, 04:24 AM
Doug Lord's Avatar
Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
Flight Ready
 
Join Date: May 2009
Rep: 838 Posts: 5,123
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Live here: http://www.americascup.com/en/regate...ourse/show.php
__________________
yes, it is a revolution
---"So (yet) another new world begins."
Andrew Hurst, editor of Seahorse magazine, August,2011
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-09-2010, 11:30 AM
jehardiman jehardiman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Rep: 1623 Posts: 1,483
Location: Port Orchard, Washington, USA
A thought occured to me; wouldn't it be funny if, because of the wind limits, they don't sail all the races by the 25th.

Now that would start the circus.
__________________
A vessel is nothing but a bunch of opinions and compromises held together by the faith of the builders and engineers that they did it correctly. Therefor the only thing a Naval Architect has to sell is his opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-11-2010, 02:18 AM
Roly Roly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Rep: 222 Posts: 471
Location: NZ
I guess one more reason for BMWO to litigate further.
What a circus!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-11-2010, 10:48 AM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
.
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Rep: 593 Posts: 2,054
Location: South Bay
It can only be a circus, if one cares and has invested expectations. This is now and has always been, a sailboat race for rich people. They have always made their own rules regarding the event, where it would be held and just who could mount a challenge.

In the grand scheme of things, would it really matter if the whole thing collapsed tomorrow and sank to the bottom?

We live in a time of grand spectacle. If that reality abuses your sense of self and how humanity should behave towards one another, then take action. Take action by refusing to participate in the head swiveling gore on the freeway. Refuse to engage the reality TV shows that have nothing, whatsoever, to do with reality. Become a proactive member of your body politic, whatever and wherever, it may be. Voice your distaste when an athlete, at any level, uses drugs to elevate his, or her, status.

Get to know your neighbors. Visit them in their homes and not just over the fence where you can comfortaby distance yourself from the fact that they are not like you.

Be open to the possibilities of the life around you and how you are not now, nor have you ever been, a confined species with pre-disposed limits. Don't crap in the place where you eat and sleep.


But, most of all....Teach your children about integrity, honesty, passion, obligation and honor.

Do these things, and many more, and the whole spectacle of the America's Cup will become much less of an issue and rapidly fade from the passion of the sailing community.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-13-2010, 03:59 PM
trev0006 trev0006 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rep: 10 Posts: 3
Location: california
This is getting out of hand.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
From Scuttlebutt-this just seems so very wrong:

But, this being AC 33, first a report from the room. The International Jury
has finally handed down its final decision on measurement and it is not hard
to see why it took so long. Indeed, when I saw the Jury driving out of their
headquarters on Saturday, I was surprised they were not still holding their
noses. The bottom line is that, although Justice Kornreich ruled, based on
the recommendation of three of the Jury members, that the boats had to be
measured with water ballast on board, the Jury has ratified an absurd
measurement procedure that turns Justice Kornreich's decision on its head.
How does that work? The Jury has ruled that, although water has to be
distributed equally from side to side, it does not have to be equally
distributed fore and aft.

Thus, Alinghi can pump all its water ballast to specially constructed stern
tanks, which will then sink the stern until the boat does a wheelie and the
LWL is brought under 90 feet. Of course, the boat could never sail in that
trim under any race condition and the stern tanks will probably not be used
to any substantial extent while actually sailing. Clearly, this is not a
case of exploiting a loophole in a rule. It is an example of ratifying
breaking any rational understanding of the way to implement the rule in
order to produce the exact opposite of the rule.

Why? Alinghi cannot comply with the Deed with any water ballast and cannot
sail without water ballast. The Jury is simply not going to force Alinghi to
comply with the Deed, knowing that it would decide the Match. It would have
been simpler to just come out and say that, regardless of Justice
Kornreich's ruling, Alinghi can measure without water ballast and then add
water while racing. Sailors should think twice before complaining about
Supreme Court justices running this game, rather than sailors. The inmates
cannot seem to run the asylum very well either.
-- Read on:
http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/07/cf/#p57tirescars
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-13-2010, 04:45 PM
Doug Lord's Avatar
Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
Flight Ready
 
Join Date: May 2009
Rep: 838 Posts: 5,123
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Measurement woe: Alinghi= water USA= helium

All this indignation was before it turned out that USA had to use helium to measure in! Oh well, its the Americas Cup. Long Live the Cup!
__________________
yes, it is a revolution
---"So (yet) another new world begins."
Andrew Hurst, editor of Seahorse magazine, August,2011
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:22 PM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
.
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Rep: 593 Posts: 2,054
Location: South Bay
Perhaps you meant to say, supposedly used helium, since it has not been confirmed publicly by the kind folks at BMWO?

On the other hand, I have a source that tells me that real BS was on board with a steady output of captured methane. Besides being an alternate fuel for the engine, the gas was being produced all during the races in an effort to have a slow discharge, non-breathable disgusting gas that would force the opponent to the other side of the course whenever it was desired.

Mind you it's my source and I'm not telling who it is.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Americas cup yacht designs 1851-1986 Tranth Boat Design 2 09-04-2011 01:08 PM
Foiler Americas Cup Doug Lord Multihulls 41 01-21-2010 08:44 PM
Lifting Hydrofoils(foil assist) in the Americas Cup!!!(?) Doug Lord Multihulls 17 09-22-2008 04:54 PM
Americas Cup Yachts Sails Mark Robinson Boat Design 0 12-02-2004 04:34 AM
Americas Cup model... portsix Sailboats 3 01-24-2004 04:11 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Web Site Design and Content Copyright ©1999 - 2012 Boat Design Net