America's Cup 2010: Race Thread

[Doug Lord]

Looks like it may be a go today. www.americascup.com If you don't want to download the player click on "medium".
Lets try to keep this thread about boat design and performance. There are two other threads to bitch about the management of this Cup. Thanks!
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Alinghi really looks good flying a hull....-Alinghi using straight daggerboards-USA using curved lifting foils
Alinghi 17-18 knots in 5 knots of wind..
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[Doug Lord]

Race is a go... postponed temporarily again due to only 2-3 knots of wind- USA flying two hulls now

START 8:35 EST Both boats flying hulls-5-6 knots wind-maybe more. Start sequence has begun! 10 minute gun!
Guy just jumped off USA....6 min to go... PROTEST! Penalty against Alinghi Oracle powered in extraordinarily fast-Alinghi didn't get out of the way with USA on stb!
USA STALLS! and they blow it! Alinghi way out front! Still need to do their penlty.....
USA higher and faster and still behind but they've cut Alinghies lead by more that 2/3rds-Alinghi still has todo their penalty-USA now in lead!!
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Who said multihulls can't match race?!! Spectacular racing-USA has dropped jib and is sailing with wing only-Alinghy gaining back a bit-USA 500 meters ahead at half way point

[Doug Lord]

USA still considerably ahead of Alinghy-USA wing only-Alinghy still has penalty-USA seems to fly two hulls most of the time Alinghi tacks-USA follows to cover-USA 1200 m in front-USA about to set gennaker-jib actually set-wind dropping a bit-coming up to windward mark-USA 1400m ahead-At mark rounding USA 3:21 ahead of Alinghi-USA much faster downwind 2100m now-Alinghi can't keep windward hull up-USA flying two hulls 99% of the time-Back of wing to windward of cl on USA-
engine fire on one of the chase boats! Alinghi gybes and then USA speeds 24 knots=USA; 21=Alinghi-3000m lead for USA.
Photography is excellent-what a spectacle-the shots of USA flying two hulls are just extraordinary!

[daiquiri]

I'm watching the race... And thinking how boring it must be even to those guys in the boats. 1200 m upwind distance after less than 1 hour, no tacks, no combat, no nothing...
At least a team of cheerleaders would fill up these void moments, the organization commitee should take them into consideration for the next race... YAWN!

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by daiquiri

I'm watching the race... And thinking how boring it must be even to those guys in the boats. 1200 m upwind distance after less than 1 hour, no tacks, no combat, no nothing...
At least a team of cheerleaders would fill up these void moments, the organization commitee should take them into consideration for the next race... YAWN!

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The start was as exciting or more exciting that any Cup I have ever watched. To me the ability to watch these fantastic boats makes up for any tactical deficit. These boats- particularly USA- are just fantastic-so much better to watch than keelboats....
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Good shot of Alinghi dumping waterballast....

[Doug Lord]

USA WINS!

--1st trimaran to win an AC race
--1st boat of any kind to use a lifting hydrofoil in an AC Race

Congratulations to Team USA-BMW Oracle!
I thoroughly enjoyed this race-the scenes were just spectacular-I hope multi's stay in the Americas Cup.

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Alinghi just did penalty turn....
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Media press conference 2.5+ hours from now(11:15 EST)-press conference at 1:45pm.

Alinghi 9:49 behind at finish-after penalty turn. Revised to 15:29 because they didn't properly complete their penalty turn.

[RHP]

I hope this thread wont go jingoistic

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

I thoroughly enjoyed this race-the scenes were just spectacular-I hope multi's stay in the Americas Cup.

Doug, don't mistake me, I'm really trying to understand - what is exactly that you have found spectacular in this race?

It was one of the most boring things I've ever seen, worse than watching cycle-race marathon - at least they don't end up with 15 minutes difference between the winner and the second.

This road leads straight towards the death of AC, imho.

[jehardiman]

To be honest, it was no worse than some of the horizon jobs pulled in the IACC boats. I watched A^2 do almost the same thing in '90. When one boat has a consistant 1% speed advantage, there is no need to use tactics on the other boat...just sail the race.

FWIW, I find it funny that the only time Alinghi had any lead was after the crossing foul right before the start....and that was quickly pulled in. Looks like next time USA will have to look out for the ram. <rolleyes>.

My money still says one breaks before the end.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by daiquiri

Doug, don't mistake me, I'm really trying to understand - what is exactly that you have found spectacular in this race?

It was one of the most boring things I've ever seen, worse than watching cycle-race marathon - at least they don't end up with 15 minutes difference between the winner and the second.

This road leads straight towards the death of AC, imho.

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Slavi, its hard to put in words. I've watched every Americas Cup that has ever been televised and the start here was among the most exciting I've ever seen. And watching these spectacular machines esp. USA flying two hulls 99% of the time simply takes my breath away. I think there is also a lesson: the actual time difference was 9 minutes-not 15-the extra time was added because of a mistake. So 9 minutes over 40 miles is not all that big a lead especially considering that both boats were born on a clean sheet of paper. With what has been learned by both teams future races with big multies are likely to produce consistently closer results.
Hope I've helped a bit..

[jehardiman]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

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I think there is also a lesson: the actual time difference was 9 minutes-not 15-the extra time was added because of a mistake. So 9 minutes over 40 miles is not all that big a lead especially considering that both boats were born on a clean sheet of paper.

I think the actual "real" difference was just under 4 minutes, with the extra 5 being the 270 for the crossing foul, and when the muffed that, they got a time penalty.

And 3 minutes ahead would be consistant with other examples I could pull from AC history. Once you get that far ahead of the other boat (which would be ~1km for a IACC boat or ~1nm for these things), there is no need to push the boat further ahead and possibly break something. Additionally you want to stay in the same wind pattern as the other boat, so you cover and don't take off on a flyer. All you need to do then is stay between the slower boat and the finish.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by jehardiman

To be honest, it was no worse than some of the horizon jobs pulled in the IACC boats. I watched A^2 do almost the same thing in '90. When one boat has a consistant 1% speed advantage, there is no need to use tactics on the other boat...just sail the race.

FWIW, I find it funny that the only time Alinghi had any lead was after the crossing foul right before the start....and that was quickly pulled in. Looks like next time USA will have to look out for the ram. <rolleyes>.

My money still says one breaks before the end.

The real (non penalty) delta was about 9 minutes. That works out to a difference of 13-14 seconds a mile in VMG.

One design fleets have a greater spread than that in the top 40% of the fleet.

So yes, it was a horizon job. What else would you expect from a near open design competition?

Alinghi reported that they saw wind as high 17.5 knots and that they were overpowered for much of the race. They were taken by surprise at the start after seriously underestimating USA'a ability to accelerate in 5-8 knots of breeze.

Where many people expected the supposed much lower weight of A5 would allow her to drop ballast and sail faster and lower downwind, that didn't happen.

There are some people that think that the factored loads for two boats of similar size will be similar, thus to gain a large weigh advantage you would have little of no error/safety margin. IMO it is unlikely for either boat to be very much lighter than the other.

If indeed A5 *is* even 10% lighter, what design errors were made that allowed the heavier boat to be faster and sail higher upwind and allow the heavier boat to sail faster and lower downwind?

What can Alinghi do to get 13-14 seconds a mile better VMG?

I think this was much better race than many thought it would be. It really pointed out to me that sailing 2.5+ times the speed of the wind on water is purely a L/D exercise, IMO the cleaner boat won.

R

[sandy daugherty]

The monohull is dead. Long live the monohull?
If you are mourning the loss of close match racing, tacking duels, and last second surges at the finish, you are NOT mourning the death of the monohull, you are suffering from the AC becoming the toy of the world's handful of sailing billionaires. The cost of fielding a competitive vessel drove away all but these two. That is NOT a matter of the number of hulls. With some return to Sanity, such as mandating that Sailors, Sails, boats and money must all come from one nation, and a reasonable limit on the size of the boat might just disinter the Louis Vuiton.

But the OP wanted to talk about design. There are so many new aspects, and resurections of old features here that this should be a huge thread. A wingsail with 11 panels that can be individually trimmed? Wow. Some technique to fly a hull a startlingly uniform height above the water? Mind-boggling. Sailing downwind, nearly close hauled? Oh wait, thats not new to anyone but the monomaraners....

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty

The monohull is dead. Long live the monohull?

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This is the first AC that lifting hydrofoils have played a role(primarily on USA) but I'll guarantee it won't be the last. And I believe that a monohull foiler could beat both these boats-but whether it can or not I hope this level of technology is here to stay.
The future holds awesome potential if all the BS can be dispensed with and the problems settled on the water-long live the Americas Cup! I believe these boats represent the essence of what the Cup is all about.....(with the exception of the artificial limitations on racing conditions-but thats not a boat problem -thats a people problem-high tech boats like these could be designed to handle any conditions any other AC boat could).

[idkfa]

a tacking duel with a 20m+ monohull foiler! How many ways can you say "disaster"