Amateur wants to build Blue water multi hull cruiser

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by Fanie

Actually this is / was Nick's thread

You're right, so the pictures are gone.

Regards, Angélique

[Alan M.]

Re: Insuring home built boats. I've gotten to know quite a few people who have built their own, usually in their backyards, and I don't know ANY who have had any difficulties getting the boat insured for a value they were happy with. ie. much more than the cost of building.

I only know one home builder who needed to make a claim when his boat was written off, and that claim was paid in full. From what I've been told, more than 3 times what the boat cost to build.

The alleged insurance difficulties seem to be yet another myth put about by those with a vested interest in discouraging anyone from building their own.

[welder/fitter]

Nick,
For yourself + 2 or 3 guys, I'd suggest that a smaller boat would serve the purpose & be a more achieveable project. I'm not suggesting you couldn't build such a large vessel, but from previous experience, it would take several workers who are married to the project.

In the early 1990s, I bought a deck & hull & plans for an 83' fishboat. Over the next couple of years I went from working on my own to having 12 employees &, in the end, built two fishing boats. My actual costs were almost 4x my estimate.

Based on your description, I believe that a boat in the range of 38' - 42' would serve your purposes. It would take less time, cost less money & be more manageable for short-handing. This is just a suggestion, of course &, in the end, you'll build what you want & I wish you the best in your build.

Mike

[WestVanHan]

Hey Nick,have you thought of a Wharram Pahi 63?

Cheap to build,tons of bunks,many ocean crossings.


http://www.multihull-maven.com/Boats/Pahi_63

[jaydh]

Nick,

I haven't read through all the post regarding your initial question so I'll apologize up front if there's any repeating here.....

Mate, my wife and I built a 48 foot alloy sailing cat and got it in the water in roughly 17 months. Right in your budget range with all quality equipment, engines, gear, sails, etc, etc. It was our first build. First time with alum. My wife and I agree we wasted more time arguing, worrying over nothing and drinking coffee/smoking cigs un-necessarily in hindsight. I think we had some info up on this site some place?? If nothing else check our our website sailpalau.com to get an idea of the boat. There's a few in Thailand/Malaysia/Burma doing charters too if you search google.

If you are serious, email me and I'll pass on the designers email and cell with whom you can deal with for plans. We have no business ties with him, just like his way of doing things, his honesty and no bs attitude.

Btw, we have twin 3ym30 yanmars which sip fuel and the boat hauls ass if you have any wind at all. We just did a trip from Brisbane to Palau and went through 30 - 40 gallons of diesel total and we motored much more then we would of liked to (wind pissed off!). We also run a watermaker off one engine each day and that's part of the total burn.

I did notice some nay-saying here about such a project, but it's far more easy then most let on if you keep your head in the game and devote all your energies to it....and keep things simple.

best regards,
Jay
Koror, Palau
s/v Tank Girl

[nickvonw]

thanks jay...nice pics have u got any of the layout and finished product????

so how much where the yanmars roughly??? they are shaft drives??? not saildrives???

its really good to hear from people who've finished projects

how did u fond the aluminium to work with??? how much wedling experince did u have and was it a kit?? how did u get the pices cut and bent?? did u contract that work out

anyway mate hope these arent too annoying all these questions

cheers nick

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by apex1

I do´nt need a self elected umpire when he (she) is not impartial.

You´ll find not a single thread here, where (when the question came up), the professional part of the Forum along with the active amateur builders, did not agree unisono, that DIY in general does´nt save much money.

Richard, you forgot this thread. Unless you defines agree unison a littel diffrent than I do.

And don't be afraid, I'm not a umpire. I only give my opinion just like you do. But I see no harm in that.

Man and Superman (1903)

Maxims for Revolutionists

REASON

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

The man who listens to Reason is lost; Reason enslaves all whose minds are not strong enough to master her.

George Bernard Shaw (1856–1950)

Nobel Prize for Literature (1925)

I like to add that not every unreasonable man makes progress

Regards, Angélique

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by nickvonw

how did u fond the aluminium to work with??? how much wedling experince did u have and was it a kit?? how did u get the pices cut and bent?? did u contract that work out

Nick, maybe you find some answers here already. Aluminum Cat project...

Regards, Angélique

[welder/fitter]

Jay,
Interesting post! How about showing us all a few more photos & telling us your build story? Who was the designer?
Mike

[Alan M.]

Originally Posted by jaydh

Nick,

I haven't read through all the post regarding your initial question so I'll apologize up front if there's any repeating here.....

Mate, my wife and I built a 48 foot alloy sailing cat and got it in the water in roughly 17 months. Right in your budget range with all quality equipment, engines, gear, sails, etc, etc. It was our first build. First time with alum. My wife and I agree we wasted more time arguing, worrying over nothing and drinking coffee/smoking cigs un-necessarily in hindsight. I think we had some info up on this site some place?? If nothing else check our our website sailpalau.com to get an idea of the boat. There's a few in Thailand/Malaysia/Burma doing charters too if you search google.

If you are serious, email me and I'll pass on the designers email and cell with whom you can deal with for plans. We have no business ties with him, just like his way of doing things, his honesty and no bs attitude.

Btw, we have twin 3ym30 yanmars which sip fuel and the boat hauls ass if you have any wind at all. We just did a trip from Brisbane to Palau and went through 30 - 40 gallons of diesel total and we motored much more then we would of liked to (wind pissed off!). We also run a watermaker off one engine each day and that's part of the total burn.

I did notice some nay-saying here about such a project, but it's far more easy then most let on if you keep your head in the game and devote all your energies to it....and keep things simple.

best regards,
Jay
Koror, Palau
s/v Tank Girl

A 48 foot alloy cat in the sub $200k budget range? Come on, that's impossible! You must be telling lies too Jay!

But everyone knows you can buy a production cat that size for just a tad more....

[masalai]

Lets put a bit of sobriety into this case... - Alan, By your own admission you have not included "gopher" and "research" times/costing in your project and your time to make some of the hardware would not necessarily include the total time - including thinking out how to do it - like making and mounting your bollards, of which I am envious, lovely effort... and that does not include sails and riggers to design and quantify the materials/hardware, nor project coordination which these guys must address, and stuff I have not thought of yet...

These four friends need legal assistance to draw up a contract - 1) if one or more pull out - 2) who is the decision maker "captain" - 3) how and when each must contribute - 4) who decides who is leader - 5) How is a new leader determined... plus dozens more issues to be foreseen and agreed.... Somehow I do not see it happening...

Hull materials for kits are increasing in price (mine were around $52000 and would be nearer Au$72K now), auxiliary engines, electrical, plumbing, navigational electronics, mast/s & standing rigging, running rigging, sails, fittings, deck hardware, galley, RO watermaker safety systems. . . . . . . Wow the list can go on forever... Nice to dream, but - - - Look at the second hand market, hire the boat (skippered by the owner) for a weekend with you all on board... then think again as to what is realistically possible...

[Alan M.]

Originally Posted by masalai

Lets put a bit of sobriety into this case... - Alan, By your own admission you have not included "gopher" and "research" times/costing in your project and your time to make some of the hardware would not necessarily include the total time - including thinking out how to do it - like making and mounting your bollards, of which I am envious, lovely effort... and that does not include sails and riggers to design and quantify the materials/hardware, nor project coordination which these guys must address, and stuff I have not thought of yet...

Sorry, but where did I say I hadn't included the time to fabricate the cleats? Fact is, they didn't take long to make at all... and they cost less than stainless ones.

And my total costing does include the rig - most of which I already have, and $25,000 for the sails, which are really the last major expense ahead.

Project, co-ordination, gophering - yes professional builders have to pay for them - I don't.
Which is why I can build a boat like this for much less money than I could possibly buy one for. And that is the entire point.

It's amazing how much disbelief there seems to be - I recently had a visitor who felt it was impossible to have built this boat to this stage in less than 15,000 hours. Therefore by his reasoning I must have worked nearly 14 hours per day, 7 days a week for 3 years.... pig's arse.

The reality is, I don't spend as much time working on the thing as I should. Certainly not 14 or 12 or 10 or even 8 hours a day. And not 7 days a week either.

In fact today I never laid a hand on the boat. And during the course of the project, we've had holidays in Alaska the US and Canada, New Caledonia.... I've been off sailing in the Hog's breath regatta, done a trip to Cape York, sailed from Seisa to Gove... If I had really got stuck in, the boat would have been launched at least 6 months and probably closer to 12 months ago.

"Research" costing? You mean how much it costs to think about stuff? Last time I looked it was free.

[nickvonw]

alan and jay i think your spot on...

i will tend to believe you guys as u have actually built boats with you ur own money, time and skills......also you have no reason to make this stuff up...

i give u guys heaps of credit for taking the leap of faith, despite all this negativity floating round.......


maybe some of the people on this thread put buildng there own custom built boat into the 'too hard' category....i guess for those a used 50 foot lagoon would be the way to go (where u can find a decent one for 200K i dont know). but for me i put more value on space and the customisation of the boat to my needs and what i want to use it for...i want some to live on it and explore .........i dont want something that is designed for 4 couples to cruise the whitsundays for a week at a time 20 times a year (who needs 4 heads on a 50ft cat?????)

but it is very interesting to find out what clever people can achieve when they devote themselves to something


i agree with masalai, the 4 mates thing would be tough, proably hav to work and save monye for longer and do it with one mate or with my chick..time will tell

cheers

nick

alan, whats all the fuss bout ur cleats?? i navent seen any pics???

[jaydh]

nick...check your pm box. Sent our costs to ya and addressed some other questions ya had...

best - J

[Alan M.]

Originally Posted by nickvonw

alan, whats all the fuss bout ur cleats?? i navent seen any pics???

Nothing special, just composite cleats.