Alternative to marvelous Buccaneer 24

Wedges plus a locking line over the flanged foil top to a cleat on Miranda. Jacques has yet to fit lifting foils on his tri - but will happen soon.
Sid and Groucho have pin setups on the T foil rudders; the main lifting foils are fixed down - because of the beam dihedral, windward foil flies clear of water surface. There is a central conventional dagger in main hull of both boats.

 

groucho weight vs sid

Thanks for the comments Gary Baigent. Some where in this thread you mention the weight of sid compared to groucho. As I remember you said groucho was quite a bit heavier. What is the construction of groucho like? Is it built like sid but stronger or is just a bigger boat?
nelson

 

buc24 vs trailertri

I have been wondering since you have sailed on both a buc24 and a trailertri could you describe how they compare please? The trailertri seems to be a bit heavier and a little shorter than the buc24. I would guess that the buc is faster in all conditions.
I love the shape of sid. It just makes me itch to build something similiar. But alas I have a wife and nine year old daughter I would like to take cruising and need something with a bit more space.

 

Sid is 8.5 x 8 metres (roughly 27 odd x 27 feet) and weighs 230-235 kgs whereas Groucho is 11.3 x 11 metres (approx 37 x 37 feet) and weighs 650 odd kgs.
I've sailed on much modified and lengthened versions of the B24 and Farrier 24 - so not a realstic comparison. The Farrier has a wider and heavier main hull than the Buccaneer. The standard B24, imo, has too much rocker but the lengthened and more balanced main hull version, like on Miranda, is a much faster boat than original. Jacques' F24/27 needs a more modern rig (it is waiting down the side of our house) - then it will make an excellent and fast cruising family boat.
PS: I've drawn a larger main hull and a more family sympathetic boat than Sid called Three Devils.

 

I believe I am reading the thread about your family cruiser right now Gary. I haven't caught up yet.
nelson

 

Hello gary
I am rereading this thread again and had some questions about the rudder on Sid.
What did you use for a rudder shaft?
And is the wing on the bottom asymetrical or symetrical.
nelson

 

Stainless steel tube, the thicker guage variety, the thin stuff will bend. The wing mast is symmetrical from base to peak, as is the wing beam that diminishes in thickness and chord towards the ends; only the foils are asymmetric.

 

I have the greatest respect for Gary, but I can't agree with him when he says:-
"The standard B24, imo, has too much rocker, but the lengthened and more balanced main hull version, like on Miranda, is a much faster boat than original."
Agreed Miranda may be faster, but not because of the 10deg upsweep in the B24s buttock area.
The long sloping transom of Miranda gives her a longer waterline length and a better L/B ratio. The angled daggers in the amas assist by reducing wetted surface drag and help keep the rig more vertical, improving sail efficiency.
I don't see that reducing the upturn in the tail end from 10deg to 5 deg would make much difference, especially since the standard B24 has a Vee in the tail.

 

I'd agree it has too much rocker.

My GBE has too much rocker

All the fast boats out there have very little rocker these days.

 

Shouldn't the "upsweep" be considered by the overall angle the water needs to take rather than just the side plan view? If one boat had a flat bottom with 5 deg, then another had a V bottom with 10 deg. One would look to have a big angle, but wouldn't you need to figure in the fact that the water is meeting at the stern from either side AND from underneath on the V hull as compared to only underneath on the flat bottom hull?

 

Yeah but what is the cross-section? We cant forget the flow is 3d. Modern boats do not have a V at the stern so they NEED flatter rocker. The Buc has a V so its not the same.

I also think my cat has too much rocker. But it does have a flat run.

 

Rock on

IMO, the Bucs have too much rocker for higher speeds. Yes, they work great in light to medium conditions and tack very well, but at the expense of some upper end speed, and they don't have the pitch damping that a flatter and wider transom can give. All boats are compromises and the Bucs are still good all round boats, even if they don't have the more modern profiles. Since much of the world has average winds less than 15 kts, the Bucs work pretty well most of the time.
B

 

Well they say "The proof of the pudding is in the eating".
My Buc 24 won all its races over a two year period and my Buc 28 won 21 out of 24 races over another two year period. Both in all weathers.

 

trophys

Yes Patrick, and mine still wins too- but I still think that the same stack of plywood could be even better using a few things that have been learned in the last 40 years.
Lets give Gary his thread back.
B

 

Right Bruce.
Back to the alternative----and exciting it is too,----except for the lack of room.