Alternative to marvelous Buccaneer 24

The sail IS too full but stiffer battens are going to give me problems too - because the top two kept reversing and it's difficult to shake them out. Anyway, I have to go to that way.
I've got Dyneema stays, James ... and they creep too. That's why I've shroud blocks to re-tension. I can see some time ahead before I get the sail right.

 

I was looking - as we do - - just noticed a new Dyneema it's SK 78 - they say better than SK 75 but who knows. Just an observation. What about a 'fishing rod mfgrer person' any over there? I'm out of touch - but sure I could send you something that - at least might show you what I mean - all at 'foc' rates - of course.

'right-sails' always take time & thought & a look for some distance back - as I recall.

Wishing you all the best - that is possible. Ciao, james - - I'd send some of the smile icons - if I knew how to get them to work - - but smiles to you. friend, + + + , jj

 

Hi Guy's,

Looking at Gary's rig I see a lot of Catenate in it.

Link; http://sites.google.com/site/catenateproject/home

It seems as if the restoration job has ground to a halt. I've mailed them asking where the project was up to - no reply. Does anyone else know where the project is at?

Looking forward to seeing the Three Devils full float version Gary.

Tony

 

put a reef in it it might fix it. If they recut it and make it flatter the head will fold off. Its a very large % head to try hold up. I will be suprised if you can make it work in any breeze. Looks sexy tho!

The wing is looking cool too, cant wait to see how it goes!

 

looks more like a luff round issue, is the back of the mast straight or does it taper toward the centre axis on the mast above the hounds?

 

Yes, my mistake, luff tension: the wing mast is old, old, old, and when I drew it up, I was wanting the leech to not fall off, hence the catenary curve in the luff above the hounds, it is straight from base to there (same as Flash Harry's, see jpeg) - but I wouldn't do that again, would make the luff straight to the top, like I"ve done on the two masted Skimmer and other wing masts. With the curve the problem is to get the sail luff to lie sweetly with the concave curve of the mast (it's the opposite of conventional bendy fixed mast rig); you end up with creases. But Sam is right, once you reef, the top sail section is flattened - and it looks good, does the job. However, stiffer battens will help (the sail is cut dead flat) and hard cunningham will do the job too.
Actually Sam I think I can keep the leech straight by sheeting on hard. Sail is powerful, no doubt about that. I'll work on it, just got too many things on at the moment.

 

Thats interesting you say that you wouldnt do it again. when I first saw the mast I thought it looked wrong but after thinking about it, its clever. It means the sail gets flatter when you reef it, not fuller like on a normal bendy mast.

I might even retune my rig to make the bottom more bent and the top straighter (and recut the main to suit) to replicate this effect.

 

When I built the first wing mast for Supplejack, way back, I was influenced by MacAlpine Downie's C Class Lady Helmsman which had a large mid section chord and a true catenary curve running from mast base trailing edge to mast peak - and that was to reduce the soft area of sail, because the ratio of wing mast to sail was close to 50/50, and keep the leech from falling off. Also the Cunningham C Class Quests had a similar design but with a catenary curve on both leading and trailing edges. So I tried a sort of Helmsman shape on SJ ... but we found it was very difficult to get the correct wind flow over the whole distance and area of the main height - had to compromise, stalling in the lower, correct along the mid areas and not too bad at the top. The problem was I hadn't built a true catenary mast; it was same thickness, thickness not chord, from base to hounds, then tapered to the peak, whereas to be correct, it should have been narrow at base, widening midway, narrowing again at top, a catenary curve side and back. This is what the Thompson/Noble wing masts had on Sebago/We and Spirit Of Apricot, also Loick Peyron had similar setup on the first race dominating ORMA Fuji. Such a design is quite difficult to build for a simple backyard crazy, I decided, so did a compromise and only curved the trailing edge section above the hounds on my later wing masts on Misguided Angel and Flash Harry. I was also influenced by the design of the first (heavy) wing mast from B Class Boadicea, on Harry, which was the same, so I repeated it with the second, lighter version; it also allowed me to use the same sail. And that design shape allowed greater sail length to correctly stream the woolies and the top sail section, being not wide, worked okay too. But on the new square top main, it would be better, with full sail, to have a completely straight luff. Sorry, boring explanation.

 

Gooday cobber. Gary. Not 'boring' at all - Never be sorry - not ever. - Be happy - go sailing.
I think there's a pic of Lokies 'B' class - Mystery with the wing mast that Brian Leverton designed in a book compiled/written by Max Press but I can't find out how to seem to find that book on the net. Without wanting to be a 'smart-*** - aka - dumb-****' I just wish I could get all you to understand just what we did & why. Size, shape, weight, self-feathering etc etc. The only reason to learn from 'that wing' is so you can all do - much better - especially in these times of better materials & methods of construction. Gary - thanks so much for sharing all your very valuable knowledge. Ciao, james

 

I just think it good that Gary does take time time to explain his reasoning behind his ideas. May be more could be learnt from his knowledge of wing masts.

It almost appears Gary is getting to been there done that.

Just how many other non professional sailors would have his experience with wing masts out there and willing to share.

 

Here's a loose interpretation of Three Devils that I'm drawing up for Jacques. Really it is more a true example of an alternative to the B24 than that of Sid (which morphed into some weird experiment), Devils being larger (but not by much) main hull and with conventional beams, long floats layout, conventional wing mast/soft sail rig; foils in the long floats; still 8 x 8 metres (length and beam) built in tensioned ply, aiming for a fast but more comfortable boat and constructed in basic materials, usual story.

 

Love it Gary, really love those lines.
If you're going to sell those plans put me on the list.

 

=======================
Absolutely gorgeous!

 

what*about making it to fit the NZMYC Open 8.5 rule>>

 

It's really a 7.5 metre boat with lengthened hulls, a small boat, low wooded and therefore only minimal accommodation for two adults, too low headroom, also it's too wide in the beam for the 8.5's (and it needs the width because the floats, although full length, are low buoyancy and require foils for assistance). The wing mast is 11.5 -12 metres (measured from mast base) for a high aspect ratio main, I think that also is too high for the rule; there will be no motor. If there is a minimum weight for the 8.5's, Three Devils will be, for sure, way below (less than half) the average 8.5m figure. So I don't think the shoe will fit.