Alternative to marvelous Buccaneer 24

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Gary Baigent, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Space cadets? They have no part in naval architecture, die dunkelheit. Swerve away ... for your own good.
     
  2. die_dunkelheit
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    die_dunkelheit NA Student

    I could have elaborated, it's an inspiration in that I've been working on a developed ply design myself, and when I saw the first images (I started reading this thread today) the ship from flight of the navigator is what it reminded me of. So it was 2 very different points that I failed to express correctly.
     
  3. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    No, you expressed it fine - I was just taking the piss, not serious. Anyway, how about posting your developed ply design - we're all interested in such stuff here.
     
  4. die_dunkelheit
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    die_dunkelheit NA Student

    It's not nearly as pretty as yours, and no compound curvature to the ply either.
    22' Trailer Sailor, no real numbers to share yet, they'll come later.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    To be honest it will probably end up scraped..
     
  5. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    The good thing about triple chines is that you can almost fair the hull to round bilge. Years ago I sailed a 30 foot Yachting World Diamond, (Jack Holt design) double chines, very light displacement, bulb keel, 3/4 rig, small sail area, planed like a dinghy offwind. Your design is similar to a 22 foot version. Cheers.
     
  6. die_dunkelheit
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    die_dunkelheit NA Student

    Thanks for the feedback Gary
     
  7. rattus
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    rattus SeƱor Member

    Don't want to be pedantic here, but it should be *der* Dunkelheit.

    Only if you want to get it right ;-)

    Somehow "the darkness" doesn't have a feminine ring to it.

    Edit: except the mother-in-law aspect...

    Mike
     
  8. groper
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    groper Senior Member

    Gary, id love to hear a bit more detail on how you built the rotating mast bearings you mentioned in another thread... 30 years on groucho and still no problems? - definately something we could all benefit from...
     
  9. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Well, Groper, it is so simple it's embarrassing - but I have to correct one historical thing: the I beam above the female bearing in Grouch's wing mast, distorted and crushed under rigging loads one time, nothing to do with the bearings, just not enough reinforcing above them. So I slackened off the rigging, put a jack under the mast spanner and lifted it all clear of the male bearing; then I was able to lay in a number of carbon layers inside the I beam (there is an inspection hatch to allow entry) plus also around the base above and around the cup. So that is the only trouble with the mast base I've had over three decades. The fact that the mast has come down a couple of times because of a main and intermediate stays letting go ... is neither here nor there. Joking.
    So you cut/shape/turn the male bearing and turn, rout, sand out a female cup from medium to dense hardwood so that they are a loose fit, then laminate on and in box weave glass with glue thickened epoxy to both bearings and when after a few hours, before everything is really hard, lap the bearings together (you can use a large drill set into the male bearing to spin it fast, like lapping in engine valves) - I tape/staple thin strips of hard sand paper over the male bearing as a lapping in agent - then after a couple of days curing, put some grease onto the bearings - and that's all there is to it.
    Sometimes, after a few years, when sailing and a hardening gust suddenly comes through, you will here cracking/banging noises, from the mast base, although initially disconcerting (joke) ignore it, just the bearing and mast turning (perhaps requiring a little more lubricant) under load. This could be halted by having a grease nipple setup.
    An important point with rotating wing masts is that you want it to turn, but not too easily, otherwise it will flap - a little friction there does no harm.
     

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  10. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    Gary,
    Couple of things, What dimensions are we talking about here, tow ball size ? I would have thought about 100mm2 ought to be about right ?
    Would it not be a good idea to paint the mating surfaces with graphite loaded epoxy ?
    Cheers,
    RR
     
  11. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Redreuben, the male bearing on Groucho is around 90mm and Flash Harry's and the Cox's skimmer are 75mm. I've tried in the early days epoxy graphite but it is actually softer than the glass/glue mix. Remember the glue thickened laminates have to be of at least five of glass. One or two coats of graphite wouldn't last very long, imo. Simple old grease is better.
    I modified the male bearing on Groucho a few years ago to make lifting the rig easier, made it into half a ball shape, with the cutaway section facing forward so the lip of the cup fitted into it as you began hoisting
     
  12. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    The rotating mast bearings I have made in the past consisted of a steel towball sitting in a laminated Oak recess, epoxy glued and screwed to the deck.
     
  13. die_dunkelheit
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    die_dunkelheit NA Student

    That sounds really similar to my buddies Hobie Cat, except that it's a polymer ball & socket, my first thought when seeing it was that it looked like a black plastic trailer ball...


    Gary: The grease fitting would be a simple installation, but something else that may help is if you located an area of the bushing surface that is under less strain and cut a slight cup out of it and lead the grease from a grease fitting there. It would act like a little "grease reservoir". Of course that all depends on the actual geometry of the bushing surface, but similar "grease reservoirs" can be seen in one time assemblies where lubrication is intended to last the life of a product. (by "one time assemblies" I mean mechanisms that are lubricated and assembled and not intended to be disassembled)
     
  14. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Good idea, dd, but the simplest is just to drill a sideways hole into the cup terminating close to the top of the ball and then use a grease gun. But I've found my system to last for a long period and usually the mast comes down to be repainted (or self lowering forcing repairs, joke) - and then you just clean off and re-grease bearings.
     

  15. die_dunkelheit
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    die_dunkelheit NA Student

    Gary, any progress on the wing?
     
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