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  #256  
Old 10-30-2011, 02:00 AM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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Here is a wing frame, full size; 1.5 metre chord plus there will be a trailing edge flap and also a leading slat so the platform will total around 2 metres chord - and all three elements will be able to rotate. The idea will be similar to the French C Class OTIP ... but their big problem was that the main element was fixed fore and aft, (it could pivot from hull to hull of course) only the flaps/slats (there were two neat trailing edge flaps) could be moved ... so they couldn't bear away in string gusts, even though the rudders were very large, result, capsize. Well, that is my interpretation. But I like their narrow rig platform and the boat was apparently extremely fast in light airs. So that's what Sid is going to have: 11 metres tall, with a 5 metre central mast, the hard wing pivoting in the central area to tack and gybe ... but able, through the double bearing design, to be rotated like a conventional wing mast. To cure my problems of mooring the boat, the wing will be set horizontal, like an aircraft, but with negative angle of attack.
The big gains are the asymmetrical foil wing shape, very high lift and less drag than a symmetric wing or soft sail combination.
I actually built a wing like this a couple of decades ago for Misguided Angel but it ended up being too large and way too heavy so I scrapped it and went more conventional with wing mast/soft sail. Sid's rig HAS to be light. Give me a month to complete it, Doug.
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Alternative to marvelous Buccaneer 24-69fu5595.jpg  Alternative to marvelous Buccaneer 24-otip-copy.jpg  Alternative to marvelous Buccaneer 24-sidfrontview.jpg  

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  #257  
Old 10-30-2011, 02:14 PM
jamez jamez is offline
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Sid with small cabin, extended stern, carbon reinforcing beam/float attachments.
hey Gary, I went down and checked Sid out on Friday last. Looking really good. can't wait to see her sailing...
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  #258  
Old 10-30-2011, 06:59 PM
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DennisRB DennisRB is offline
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Cant wait to see the wingsail done. I really like the idea of a flip tacker style wing. I have never seen this idea applied where only the sail flip tacks rather than the whole craft. Once it is complete will it hang off a mooring that does not dry out? The foils look quite fragile to be drying out like in the pics. I have a heap of old RC glider wings I am tempted to make a RC flip tacker our of now.

Gary, if I end up cruising to NZ next year on my sail back from California to Brisbane can I come check this beast out?
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  #259  
Old 10-30-2011, 07:15 PM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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You don't have to ask permission to look at Sid, Dennis; it's moored at the mouth of Motions Creek, to the east of Meola Reef in the Waitemata above the bridge. If you check Google or Flash Earth, you'll see the boats moored there. Cheers.
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  #260  
Old 10-30-2011, 07:24 PM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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Oh, sorry, the foils are retracted - and they're mostly carbon, and they stay clear of the waterline (or just on it) when lifted. But with an inclining wing, unlike a vertical, convention wing rig, there are not the heavy side loadings on the platform if the wind oscillates and comes on the beam, therefore no pressure on the foils. But a horizontally moored rig is going to produce minimal to no side loads on the platform. The foam/glass pads temporarily tied to the curved area of the foils, will be redone and improved later; at the moment the temporary ones do the job fine.
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  #261  
Old 10-31-2011, 04:38 AM
Samnz Samnz is offline
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Originally Posted by Gary Baigent View Post
Oh, sorry, the foils are retracted - and they're mostly carbon, and they stay clear of the waterline (or just on it) when lifted. But with an inclining wing, unlike a vertical, convention wing rig, there are not the heavy side loadings on the platform if the wind oscillates and comes on the beam, therefore no pressure on the foils. But a horizontally moored rig is going to produce minimal to no side loads on the platform. The foam/glass pads temporarily tied to the curved area of the foils, will be redone and improved later; at the moment the temporary ones do the job fine.
What would be the limiting factor in terms of the top speed in your opinion Gary?

Could it hit 30 knots in ideal conditions?
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  #262  
Old 10-31-2011, 12:49 PM
cavalier mk2 cavalier mk2 is offline
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I like the rig idea Gary. In a way Sid still scissors
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  #263  
Old 10-31-2011, 06:31 PM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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Ah, I don't know, Sam; it will be quick is about all I can say. I think the J lower section of the foils will not ventilate like angled straights because the lifting sections are more deeply immersed. But time will reveal whether this is true.
Right, Cav.
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  #264  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:54 PM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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Sid's skeletal wing, 11.5 x 1.5 metres.
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  #265  
Old 11-10-2011, 07:41 AM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Gary, whats your reasoning on symetrical vs asymetrical section? With the tilting rig I think you're going to have asymetrical would have been possible, right? Congrads on the progress-good luck!
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  #266  
Old 11-10-2011, 03:56 PM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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Doug, if I'm reading you correctly, you think this rig is symmetrical, no, no, it's asymmetric - maybe the 28mm lens makes it look equal sided. Here's a shot taken this morning, before I rip down some more stringers and diagonal supports.
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  #267  
Old 11-10-2011, 05:29 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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What a difference-I can tell now.
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  #268  
Old 11-10-2011, 11:38 PM
farjoe farjoe is offline
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Gary,

It looks like you have gone for a plywood structure for your wing instead of carbon.

Would you care to comment on any weight penalty expected and if you think it will significantly affect the final results?

Plywood sure is more easily available to most of us.
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  #269  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:24 AM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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Farjoe, yes, ply is affordable; you can see I've cut holes to get minimum weight from a low tech material but there will be some uni-directional carbon going onto the thin ply outer skin especially surrounding the pivot box bearing area (plus the bearing which will be solid carbon) and the I beam; carbon would be just wasted on the frames, just imo. The stringers and diagonals are in white cedar. The thing with a wide and quite deep wing is that the shape itself is a good one and can be built light and stiff in not expensive materials. I'll weigh the wing when complete; it will be light, not just light, light.
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  #270  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:01 AM
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Corley Corley is offline
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The Americans challenged for the little america's cup with a C class running a similar rig (wingmill? I think it was called) it seemed fast but the wing section self destructed during the racing so its hard to get a measure on how fast it was relative to the more conventional wing on the Linday Cunningham designed Australian C class. Looking forward to seeing how it all goes.
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