AC 45 World Championship Cheating??

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Aug 10, 2013.

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  1. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    That does make sense, though I wouldn't venture into suggesting the specific numbers of yrs of ban, or anything similar. It pretty much depends on the performance advantage given by the modifications and how much it has gone beyond the boundaries set by the rules. I do agree that ANY beefing up of the structurally important parts are to be considered a major breach because they can decide the winner via the simple fact that structural reinforcing can avoid structural failures during a race. And structural failures are the part of the game.

    Besides that, the point of my previous question is that if there would have been punishments for the misconduct back then (during the AC45WS), then it is logical that the same punishments have to be inflicted today. That's how it works in every rule-governed activities, from sport events to the laws which govern the nations. If you killed a person (sorry for a brutal comparison) 10 yrs ago and I discover it today, you're still guilty and will be prosecuted and given the same amount of prison (or of electric voltage) you would have been given 10 yrs ago. Unless laws have changed in the meantime - which in this case didn't happen.

    Cheers
     
  2. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    In addition to what Steve said above, which falls under Article 69, anyone involved in cheating with the AC'45 could/should then have been penalized in regard to racing in the '72's, as those crew and team-members were found to have sinned under Article 60 and seriously damaged the reputation of the America's Cup.

    The ACWS was the biggest asset of the AC34 project for a couple of years, the AC45's had better international participation and gained enormous press coverage. Now again they are racing to compensate for the lack of racing in the '72's, and again getting very good coverage.

    Probably it would have struck people as even more egregious, had the cheating been revealed during the America's Cup World Series. That the team who introduced and were most invested in the success of the AC45's was at the same time doing the cheating, is fairly amazing.

    ...

    Do you speak Italian, Daiquiri? Could you manage a little translation of the Italian I posted above, something better than Google à Gogo?
     
  3. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    Gogo, I think we need to look at how ISAF handles rule infringements in sailboat racing, since they don't govern whatever sport you are referring to, or cycling, then we shouldn't compare how other sports handle their infringements, as they all differ anyway. In Rugby, headbutting an opponent gets a 2 match ban, doing so in boxing gets a warning. Do it at Wimbledon and you might get a life-ban from tennis.

    Outside of this scenario, for a moment - ISAF looks at Rule 69 infringements quite seriously, depending on the nature of the offense. If you swear at the opposition or the Race Officer, you can be given anything up to a lifetime ban from competing. Apparently, 'bringing the sport into disrepute' is frowned upon in our age-old 'gentlemen's sport'.
    So it has nothing to do with the fact that the cheating in question happened in an AC45 event and not the AC, if found guilty of cheating at any event, the guilty can be given a lifetime ban from competing in sailing, which would then prevent them from being eligible to defend the AC, or go on to compete in any sailing event governed by ISAF.
     
  4. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Of course I do, and of course I could, if you need that favor. What part exactly? You can PM me.
     
  5. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    Why thank you kindly!

    It was way back there, post #118. Though it may just be more idle gossip, it addresses what everyone has said they can make no sense of - the bag of lead shot. Google just makes a hash of it, especially the first paragraph:

     
  6. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    A source from Luna Rossa says: "we have studied for long time the Spithill's tacking maneuvers on AC45, he was able to raise the boat immediately after the tack. We have tried to do the same many times with no success, because you can do that only if your boat's weight is considerably lower. The particular (irregularity) discovered by the measurers would then be just a forgotten part of a much more substantial treatments received by Oracle's boats. There were rumors that they could vary the boards angle to raise the boat on close reaching, and others which said that their boats were consistently lightened, in order to put the weights close to the center. The 300 grams left in the bowsprit were just a part of this weight.

    When it comes to the possible sanctions, the most consistent voices remain the possible disqualification of Spithill, who should leave the helm to Ainslie (but sometimes the disqualification starts after the event is over, in which case would be useless) and 3 penalty points to the team, which would hence start the races against ETNZ with the score of -3. If that was true, the Americans should win 12 races and Kiwis only 9. A lots of stuff... which considerably prolongs the event program.

    Oracle is holding it's breath, the final decision of the jury was postponed to Thursday 29th, because Oracle's lawyers were not ready with the defensive material. In other words, the situation is worse than it appears. In the meantime, the trophies for the past circuits have been assigned to Luna Rossa and ETNZ. What appears as a really gross thing is how Coutts (if not him, who else?) could put in peril the whole defense (of the AC) just to win the AC45 circuit, a sign of a useless greed."
     
  7. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    ^^^
    Excellent to have that translation, Daiquiri. Thank you very much.

    I did a search and tried to get an impression of the journalist who wrote this, I find he does not seem like someone given to frivolous comments.

    But it is so peculiar to think that one of the Oracle boats might have had weight redistributed to such an extent that other sailors (as described above) were noticing unusual performance. It would appear to be brazen and is hard to believe.

    The initial 'alerts' about tampering with the forward kingposts on July 26 and 27th put someone in a situation where it then was too late to remove that particular evidence, five weeks later we may now find out if more deviousness took place. I can't see the Jury delaying their decision announcement again.

    It couldn't be timed worse?
     
  8. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    ...

    Anyone desperate for their daily fix, of Kiwi Journalism?

    Here's something was linked in a tweet by Scuttlebutt a few hours ago:

     
  9. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    ...

    Alan Block aka 'Clean' posted this ten minutes ago:

    "I am hearing that Jimmy is gone plus 4 shore crew. Just a rumor, but a good one from someone who should know."


    ...

    Leaking news just before it becomes official is a way to endear yourself a little with media people from who you might wish better treatment. That anyone might want better treatment from Alan Block is a sign of their wretchedness?

    lol
     
  10. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    ^^^

    It was only a couple of days ago, another Italian journalist spoke to Russell Coutts and brought up the notion of Spithill being penalized. Coutts answered as follows:

    "Jimmy has nothing to do with it and proved that. We'll see him at the helm of Oracle America's Cup, believe me. "

    LINK

    For the moment I tend to believe Coutts. But stranger things have happened.

    ...


    Here's a veritable eruption from AC historian Bob Fisher, posted half an hour ago:

     
  11. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    ...

    Paul Lewis at the NZ Herald, posted half an hour ago:


    excerpts:
    I didn't know that bit about "any side taking legal recourse during the regatta being expelled from it".

    My sincerest thanks to George Schuyler, for that wisdom and foresight!
     
  12. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    ^^^

    But was it Schuyler or Ellison/Coutts/Ehman, who added that prohibition against lawyering from the poopdeck, into the Protocol?

    The latter I suppose, back when they were designing the AC34 to be a prolonged and humongous festival gathering billionaires from around the globe...

    :rolleyes:

    Alan Block/Clean failed to get confirmation of his rumor so far:

    "I'm told my rumor is 'wrong'. vamos a ver. I expect decision immediately after RB racing is over."

    Watch your back Alan; your enemies are everywhere and would like nothing better than that you again commit erroneous scribbles to your front page.

    lol

    ...
    This just in:

     
  13. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Could be, could be not. One has to bear in mind that teams do not watch and analyse the races as we do. They do it by examining multiple video tapes and slow-motion replays of every tacking maneuver of their opponents. And they do it with a stopwatch in their hand. So the interviewed person might have been talking about something which for the rest of us could be just a barely noticeable subtlety, but for them is a difference between winning or losing the race.
    Cheers
     
  14. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    ...

    This is kind of like when I was in college, working on the school paper and following some leading news story on the AP ticker machine. Ahhh, those were the days!

    Here's something from the Jury, just now:

    JURY NOTICE JN116
    Allegation of Gross Misconduct
    DECISION and PARTIAL LIFTING OF THE CONFIDENTIALITY ORDER


    Exclusions from AC34 for three shore crew and wing trimmer Dirk de Ridder.
     

  15. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    There is also JN117...
    http://noticeboard.americascup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/JN117.pdf
     
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