Boat Design Forums  |  Boat Design Directory  |  Boat Design Gallery  |  Boat Design Book Store  |  Thanks to Our Site Sponsors
  #61  
Old 10-07-2013, 05:08 AM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Rep: 509 Posts: 2,850
Location: auckland nz
Hopefully (we live in hope?) the new AC rule is both more liberal (in terms of designing true and unrestricted foilers) and at the same time, a return to purist sailing (meaning no Frankenstein electronic cheating stuff), a return not to super computers but to super skilled sailors and designers.
Actually there is an excellent philosophy to be guided by - and it has been around since the 1960's ... just look at what is occurring with the brilliant C Class cats; scale them up a bit and there's your answer. But allow differing foiler platforms, meaning trimaran or monohull configurations as well.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-07-2013, 05:31 PM
El_Guero El_Guero is offline
Previous Member
 
purist sailing?

ELIMINATE FOILS .... and cats .... go back to schooners!

Although, I gotta admit, I have NEVER seen Frankenstein's monster in any AC races .... He might liven things up some.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-08-2013, 03:04 PM
sharpii2 sharpii2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Rep: 611 Posts: 1,730
Location: Michigan, USA
Here's a simple rule:

A.) 7.0 Cubic meter minimum displacement.

B.) 20 meter max length.

C.) 200 Square Meter max Sail Area.

Stipulations:

1.) All sail control, foil control, and ballast shifting, direction control, as well as propulsion must powered be by human muscle or by the wind.

2.) Any capsize (knockdown the vessel cannot recover from on its own), during a race, shall be considered a sinking, disqualifying boat and team from further heats.

3.) Vessels must be able to sail in Beaufort wind forces of 2 through 7. Any vessel may be allowed to opt out of a heat due to sailing conditions, but will forfeit that heat, if the competing team decides to sail, but only in that range of conditions. Heats will not be sailed in winds greater than force 7 or less than force 2.

That's it.

There would, of course be a bunch of other stipulations, but only to make the three I mentioned enforceable, as well as for safety concerns.

That, in turn would be followed by a bunch of advisory "shoulds".

Let the heat and risk be put on the designers and teams to bet on the fastest boat within these six restrictions.
__________________
I never learned a thing from an argument I won.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-08-2013, 03:09 PM
michael pierzga michael pierzga is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rep: 1180 Posts: 4,865
Location: spain
Youre forgeting

The bigger the boat, the greater the surface area for advertising

The Americas cup is nothing to do with sailing...that the flintstones generation stuff

The new AC is all about marketing, hype and revenue.

40 meter cats with skyscraper wings covered in logos

Red Bull.......................................
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:15 AM
Jim Caldwell Jim Caldwell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Rep: 48 Posts: 239
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
I like #1, Wind turbine charged batteries, I wonder how many amps 50 kts will produce? LOL
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-12-2013, 06:49 PM
RHough's Avatar
RHough RHough is offline
Retro Dude
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rep: 793 Posts: 1,792
Location: BC Summers / Nayarit Winters
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpii2 View Post
Here's a simple rule:

A.) 7.0 Cubic meter minimum displacement.

B.) 20 meter max length.

C.) 200 Square Meter max Sail Area.

Stipulations:

1.) All sail control, foil control, and ballast shifting, direction control, as well as propulsion must powered be by human muscle or by the wind.

2.) Any capsize (knockdown the vessel cannot recover from on its own), during a race, shall be considered a sinking, disqualifying boat and team from further heats.

3.) Vessels must be able to sail in Beaufort wind forces of 2 through 7. Any vessel may be allowed to opt out of a heat due to sailing conditions, but will forfeit that heat, if the competing team decides to sail, but only in that range of conditions. Heats will not be sailed in winds greater than force 7 or less than force 2.

That's it.

There would, of course be a bunch of other stipulations, but only to make the three I mentioned enforceable, as well as for safety concerns.

That, in turn would be followed by a bunch of advisory "shoulds".

Let the heat and risk be put on the designers and teams to bet on the fastest boat within these six restrictions.
The simple rule already exists:
44-90 ft LWL
Manual power

No need for any more.

Most designers *HATE* rules like that. If offers too many ways to fail. If you look at the history of rules, they are restrictive in the name of close competition, in reality designers want a small boat so if the pick the wrong corner they don't look like an idiot.

Todays designs are driven more by the sailing conditions and the courses than for any other factor.

The 44 to 90 LWL manual power boat for a Transpac will not be competitive on the AC72 stadium course (the reverse is true also).

Rather than start with the dimensions of the boat, define the race course and set the venue. Those are the things that will drive design choices.

R
__________________
Proud supporter of The Far Kurnell Cat Racing Team

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
- Thomas A. Edison
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:36 PM
sharpii2 sharpii2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Rep: 611 Posts: 1,730
Location: Michigan, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by RHough View Post
The simple rule already exists:
44-90 ft LWL
Manual power

No need for any more.

Most designers *HATE* rules like that. If offers too many ways to fail. If you look at the history of rules, they are restrictive in the name of close competition, in reality designers want a small boat so if the pick the wrong corner they don't look like an idiot.

Todays designs are driven more by the sailing conditions and the courses than for any other factor.

The 44 to 90 LWL manual power boat for a Transpac will not be competitive on the AC72 stadium course (the reverse is true also).

Rather than start with the dimensions of the boat, define the race course and set the venue. Those are the things that will drive design choices.

R
Simply limiting Water Line Length is not enough.

There are three major factors that limit a sailboat's speed:

Displacement,
Sail Area, and
Length

Limiting those three goes a long way toward keeping the competition within reason.

These three limitations are what I call "Strategic Limitations", as they are very hard, if not impossible, to get around and are quite effective.

Very few if any open class design rules have bothered to restrict all three.

Limiting just the Water Line Length leads to boats with very short waterlines and very long over hangs.

By limiting the Length itself, you defeat such dodges.

Naturally, boats designed to my proposed rule would be quite low in the D/L ratio and quite inclined to plane and/or foil. For this reason they would likely have very short or no overhangs.

If a much heavier Min Displ. and lower Max SA were called for, longer overhangs might appear, as the designer would do his level best to get the best light air performance he can out of an underpowered, displacement speed boat.

Since the AC is raced in just one location, which is specified well in advance, the boats can be expected to be specially designed for that location. This is how the AC is different from most sailing competitions.
__________________
I never learned a thing from an argument I won.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-24-2013, 08:46 PM
oceancruiser oceancruiser is offline
Previous Member
 
Team New-Zealand's Loss demands more Accountability and Dalton & Barker loss Stats.

Talking about accountability read an opinion in NZ on yahoo sport.


Team New-Zealand's Loss demands more Accountability and Dalton & Barker loss Stats. FROM NZ.

Link at.

http://www.7knots.com/cgi-bin/list_f...thers;view=649
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 11-21-2013, 05:38 PM
Corley's Avatar
Corley Corley is offline
epoxy coated
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Rep: 826 Posts: 3,460
Location: Melbourne, Australia
An interview by Rob Kothe and the Sail-World team with Tom Slingsby a good read I thought.

Part 1
On the 34th America's Cup

http://www.sail-world.com/go_link.cf...cfm?nid=116823

Part 2
On the 35th America's Cup

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/...=0&tickerCID=0
__________________
Multihull Yacht Club of Victoria
https://www.facebook.com/MultihullYachtClubOfVictoria
blog/projects http://trimaranproject.blogspot.com.au/
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 11-24-2013, 06:45 PM
Corley's Avatar
Corley Corley is offline
epoxy coated
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Rep: 826 Posts: 3,460
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Part 3 of the Tom Slingsby interview on Sail-World

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/...rt-III)/117012
__________________
Multihull Yacht Club of Victoria
https://www.facebook.com/MultihullYachtClubOfVictoria
blog/projects http://trimaranproject.blogspot.com.au/
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 11-24-2013, 08:21 PM
Doug Lord's Avatar
Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
Flight Ready
 
Join Date: May 2009
Rep: 1362 Posts: 13,619
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corley View Post
Part 3 of the Tom Slingsby interview on Sail-World

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/...rt-III)/117012
==============
Thanks Corley!
__________________
yes, it is a Revolution
WOLF-daughter of fire arrow
Fire Arrow Foil System-small and large trimarans!
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 11-27-2013, 08:27 PM
Corley's Avatar
Corley Corley is offline
epoxy coated
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Rep: 826 Posts: 3,460
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Iain Murray to lead the Australian HIYC challenge

http://www.americascup.com/en/news/3...ustralian-team
__________________
Multihull Yacht Club of Victoria
https://www.facebook.com/MultihullYachtClubOfVictoria
blog/projects http://trimaranproject.blogspot.com.au/
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 12-05-2013, 02:53 AM
Corley's Avatar
Corley Corley is offline
epoxy coated
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Rep: 826 Posts: 3,460
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Glenn Ashby renews contract with Team New Zealand as they seek to retain key personnel.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news...ectid=11166724
__________________
Multihull Yacht Club of Victoria
https://www.facebook.com/MultihullYachtClubOfVictoria
blog/projects http://trimaranproject.blogspot.com.au/
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 02-01-2014, 10:17 AM
Doug Lord's Avatar
Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
Flight Ready
 
Join Date: May 2009
Rep: 1362 Posts: 13,619
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
35th America's Cup-Pete Melvin on the rule---

Here's a ok article-not much to it: http://www.americascup.com/en/news/4...-Cup-boat.html
__________________
yes, it is a Revolution
WOLF-daughter of fire arrow
Fire Arrow Foil System-small and large trimarans!
Reply With Quote


  #75  
Old 02-17-2014, 08:32 PM
Doug Lord's Avatar
Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
Flight Ready
 
Join Date: May 2009
Rep: 1362 Posts: 13,619
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
35th AC

Highlights of a video interview of Pete Melvin about the AC 35 rule-published in Scuttlebutt:

In an interview at the A-Class World Championship, Melvin offered a glimpse of what to expect. Here are some of the bullet points:

* Adjustable rudder angle: The AC72 restricted active adjustment of the rudder angle while sailing, which affected foiling efficiency. The new class of boat will allow active adjustment, which will improve foiling ability both upwind and downwind.

* Stored energy: The AC72 allowed no stored energy, and while all systems were human powered, there were peak times on the race course when the grinders were heavily taxed. It is expected the new boat again will again rely solely on human power for the systems, but there may be a provision wherein some power can be held in reserve to lessen the peak periods.

* Manpower: The class of boat is to be in the 60-65 foot range, which will reduce the crew needed to sail it, and the shore team required to launch and service it. Fewer people needed should reduce team budgets.

* Performance: The design brief was for the new class to be no slower than 10% of the AC72 speeds. Tests indicate the new class could be similar in speeds downwind as the AC72, but a bit slower upwind. Melvin expects the speed difference to be visually difficult to discern, and the new class may even appear faster given its smaller size.

* Foiling: Expect the new class to foil both upwind and downwind.

* One Design: In the interest of cost savings, it is likely the wing will have some one design restriction. Of the major components, it is believed the wing provided the least amount of performance gain per dollar spent on design and construction. It is believed that the hull and foil systems will remain open and restricted only by the class rule.

=================
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KUJqgTNvW0
__________________
yes, it is a Revolution
WOLF-daughter of fire arrow
Fire Arrow Foil System-small and large trimarans!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Americas Cup: whats next? Doug Lord Sailboats 460 07-10-2013
09:03 AM 
Americas Cup 34-Monohull Proposal Doug Lord Sailboats 2 07-06-2010
02:52 PM 
Foiler Americas Cup Doug Lord Multihulls 41 01-21-2010
07:44 PM 
Americas Cup Yachts Sails Mark Robinson Boat Design 0 12-02-2004
03:34 AM 
Americas Cup model... portsix Sailboats 3 01-24-2004
03:11 AM 

Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:13 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Web Site Design and Content Copyright ©1999 - 2017 Boat Design Net