34th America's Cup: multihulls!

[Doug Lord]

Heres the second version of the new AC 72 rule:

[Doug Lord]

Heard today that Team New Zealand will definitely challenge. Other than Italy thats all I know for sure......

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news...ectid=10679167 + Magnus Clarke of Canaan fame

[Doug Lord]

From Tom Speer on SA on wing restrictions:

What the removal of the axis/element restrictions means is the teams can do smart designs instead of looking for ways to beat the rule. Even the 2-axis limitation would have permitted 5-piece wings. Tried-and-true C-class designs would have been ruled out, making it more difficult for teams to capitalize on existing knowledge. There may also be linkage arrangements that would simplify the wing, allowing a two-element section to be competitive with a three-element wing by having similar gap geometry.

Landyachts have been built with flaps that translated in the transverse direction when tacking, so the leading edge of the flap was located to windward of the trailing edge of the main element at low flap angles. The draft rule would have prohibited this.

Teams won't be trying to construct flexible, morphing structures to get around limitations in the number of discrete axes. If a team wants a morphing structure, it will be because the performance is worth the risk and weight, and not a rule cheat.

Translation is limited by the half-girth restriction. The limit of 1.75% in the growth of the girth rules out Fowler flaps and pretty much any kind of chordwise translation. The half-girth restriction may also limit the thickness of the wing, or the amount of flap deflection that can be obtained. Half-girth is unambiguous, easily measured, and could become a serious restriction on the designs.

[Doug Lord]

From Scuttlebutt tonight:

AC72 CLASS RULE FINALIZED AND PUBLISHED
(October 15, 2010) - From concept to completed Class Rule in less than four
months, full details were published today for the new high-performance
wingsailed catamaran that will be used in the 34th America's Cup. The final
design details for the AC72 wingsailed catamaran, which has a speed
potential of three times the wind speed, is now available to prospective
challengers and defenders alike.

The review period of the draft class rule received broad input, and was fine
tuned by a committee led by Pete Melvin and his team at Morrelli & Melvin
Design & Engineering. "There will be nothing else like them, which perfectly
matches the allure and appeal of the America's Cup," said Melvin. Among the
changes incorporated into the final rule were added provisions and rules for
a short wing. The AC 72 is to be capable of competing in winds of 5 to 30
knots to minimize racing delays due to winds too light or too strong.

In 2011, teams will compete in identical AC45's, "the little sister with
attitude." This one-design catamaran will provide teams with
state-of-the-art wingsail technology and fast-track their multihull racing
skills. Teams may design and build a maximum of two AC72 catamarans, which
will then be raced from the 2012 season onwards in America's Cup World
Series events that will lead to the Selection Series and the America's Cup
Match in 2013. -- Full story: http://tinyurl.com/ACUP-101710

AC 72 fact sheet: http://www.americascup.com/downloadsAC72+Fact+Sheet
AC 72 class rule: http://www.americascup.com/downloadsAC72+CLASS+RULE

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Heard today that Team New Zealand will definitely challenge. Other than Italy thats all I know for sure......

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news...ectid=10679167 + Magnus Clarke of Canaan fame

Seems nothing definite in that article, and surely not from Dalts in Scuttlebutt/NZ Herald today:

QUESTIONABLE: Team New Zealand's CEO Grant Dalton expects to know if they will take part in the new, multi-hulled America's Cup by early next year. If Team NZ decide to compete - "and that's a big if," says Dalton - he will then begin his familiar search for more sponsors and funding, although the largest component of the costs is salaries and they will be down from last time as fewer sailors are required on the big cats. The key is the selection of a venue. Dalton favours San Francisco but, either way, needs to know avenue before he can target sponsors with a view to the environment such backers can leverage.


I'm betting Larry will need a certain number of teams guaranteed in whatever deal he makes with the venue he chooses. So I imagine Dalton and maybe others will use their "possible" participation as their own lever to perhaps pry some dollars out of the defender. After all, didn't TNZ work the defender for some funding during the run up to AC32?

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Paul B

Seems nothing definite in that article, and surely not from Dalts in Scuttlebutt/NZ Herald today:

QUESTIONABLE: Team New Zealand's CEO Grant Dalton expects to know if they will take part in the new, multi-hulled America's Cup by early next year. If Team NZ decide to compete - "and that's a big if," says Dalton - he will then begin his familiar search for more sponsors and funding, although the largest component of the costs is salaries and they will be down from last time as fewer sailors are required on the big cats. The key is the selection of a venue. Dalton favours San Francisco but, either way, needs to know avenue before he can target sponsors with a view to the environment such backers can leverage.


I'm betting Larry will need a certain number of teams guaranteed in whatever deal he makes with the venue he chooses. So I imagine Dalton and maybe others will use their "possible" participation as their own lever to perhaps pry some dollars out of the defender. After all, didn't TNZ work the defender for some funding during the run up to AC32?

===================
I heard personally from Magnus Clarke that he had been hired by TNZ and was moving there. He repeated that fact a couple days later on SA.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

===================
I heard personally from Magnus Clarke that he had been hired by TNZ and was moving there. He repeated that fact a couple days later on SA.

And? Just because TNZ is hiring staff does not mean they will definitely participate. Many corpotations hire talent in advance of a potential new project or client. If the new project or client does not come to fruition the newly hired staff is let go.

I am sure Dalton would like to have a go. It sounds like he currently doesn't have the funding to do so.

[Stephen Ditmore]

Sail and power, there's not much question that Australia has been a leader in catamaran design. It seems a shame that as far as I know there is no Australian team challenging for the next America's Cup. I'd like to have some fun by naming my Australian challenge design team:

Lindsay Cunningham is an obvious first pick.

While it's the fact that Australia has expertise specific to catamarans that makes this interesting, Andrew McDougall is an Australian whose successes ought not be ignored (regardless the number of hulls). I'd like to see him part of both the sailing program and the design team.

Then there's an active member of these forums I would definitely tap; Leo Lazauskas: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/pro...lazauskas.html

And Richard Roake (the former partner of active member Steve Baker before returning to his native New Zealand):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LR2ACATS/
http://www.shearwateraircraft.com/About+Us.html
While he's a Kiwi, TNZ has never shown much interest in Roake as far as I'm aware. I'd hire him. I'm not sure I'd put him in charge of the design program - he's tended to innovate too fast (as opposed to systematically), so his designs have not done well in open class racing. Yet. One might compare him to Britton Chance in this respect. But Richard is very capable, and a creative firehose. A design team, managed properly, can benefit enormously from the presence of someone like Richard.

Where sailboats are concerned, Stuart Bloomfield is the inheritor of the Lock Crowther legacy.

Lock's son Brett Crowther designs power cats exclusively. I'd attempt to tap the talent & technology that has made Australia the leader in catamaran fast ferries, but I don't think Crowther-Incat is where I'd look first.

A little hsitory: there are now two design offices that have spun off from Incat, the builder, in Tasmania. Incat Design of Sydney spun off early in Incat history, and more recently merged with Crowther Multihulls. It's the (formerly) in-house group at Incat Tasmania that's responsible for the big wave piercing catamarans that've taken the world by storm. That group has now spun off as Revolution Design. I'd look there, and at Austal.

Greg Goodall is a catamaran designer who should probably be on-board. Another interesting Australian catamaran designer is Jeff Schionning

As for the sailing team, we'd of course bring James Spithill back to Australia. If another team has signed him for the next America's Cup, we'd be sure to sign him for the one after.

Ben (or was it Eric) Hall wrote glowingly last year in Sailing World about the top Australian A-class sailor. I'm thinking that person must have been Glenn Ashby. Is that right?

So there's my dream team: Spithill, Ashby & McDougall to put the sailing program together, and on design Cunningham, McDougall, Lazauskas, Roake, Bloomfield, Goodall, Schionning, and Revolution Design. Of those, I'd name 3 to be the decision makers after seeing how the team functioned together, with decisions being made by a vote of those three.

So why isn't some financier stepping up to the plate and bringing these folk together? An America's cup sailed in catamarans without Australia??? Pu-LLEEASE!

[oldsailor7]

Stephen. Its not the talent. --------------It's the MONEY.
Where are the Sponsors.
Like you can forget OAKLEY, the poor delusioned man. He squanders squillions on IC engined canting leadmines, otherwise known as Dinosaurs.

[Doug Lord]

Stephen, I'd like to see the Aussies back as well. Equally as much I'd like to see a real Team USA-with all US sailors led by somebody like Keith Notary(and that might happen).

[RHough]

Originally Posted by Stephen Ditmore

In both sail and power there's not much question that Australia has been a leader in catamaran design. It seems a shame that as far as I know there is no Australian team challenging for the next America's Cup. I'd like to have some fun by naming my Australian challenge design team:

From SA Oct 27:

On the tradition of what is being announced all over the world at the moment. I would like to Officially announce the intention to consider the possibilities of entering AC34. Besides the need to actually come to a decision as to the viablity of entering, we will be assessing the ability to attract the right caliber of people to the team and also the appeal that such a challenge would have to sponsors. We will also explore opportunities to merge with anybody else who will have us but if those talks don't prove fruitful, we will allow suitably qualified clubs to tender for the right to have our team represent them.

In the mean time, we have forwarded our contact details to GGYC, BOR, ACRM, RC, IM, TE and anybody else we think might send us free tickets to somewhere nice so we too can sit around and make out we are serious. If there is a chance of a spin in an AC45, so much the better. We are considering entering and paying the $25k because that should get us a few good rides on the AC45 and give everybody the illusion for at least 6 months that we are viable. Of course, this will depend on exactly how much we find in our children's pig banks.

In the mean time, our training will continue in A Class cats as we believe this is directly relevant to sailing 72' cats in the future. The fact that the Australian Nationals are on the Gold Coast in Queensland in mid summer has nothing to do with that decision and our intended attendance of that event should not be seen as simply a good holiday but instead, it should indicate we are serious about cat sailing.

All press enquires are welcomed and we are more than happy to discuss our plans with anybody who wants to fill copy space and will take a good picture of us.

SimonN is sailing A-Cats now and he was a 18ft Skiff driver.

The Far Kurnell Cat Racing Team

Challenging AC34

There is an Australian presence that is as viable as any other entry at this point.

As for the sailing team, we'd of course bring James Spithill back to Australia. And if another team has signed him for the next America's Cup, we'd be sure to sign him for the one after.

Jimmy is driving for BMWO and you can probably fund a bare bones challenge for the cost to hire him away from Larry.

[Stephen Ditmore]

COOL! Hope they get a look at my suggestions. Despite being a Yankee, I wish them luck. Perhaps they could name their boats the Lock Crowther and the Ben Lexcen!

I'd get the design team together at a world-class wind tunnel / tank test facility and charge them, first, with designing a 45' catamaran that beats the AC45 one-design.

The wing is critical. The team should start designing & building prototypes ASAP.

Heads up to Canadians, Australians, & whomever else - here's a team that might have transferable skills:
http://hpo.ornithopter.net/?q=team
http://vimeo.com/15168011

[Stephen Ditmore]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Stephen, I'd like to see the Aussies back as well. Equally as much I'd like to see a real Team USA-with all US sailors led by somebody like Keith Notary(and that might happen).

Have you heard Cam Lewis' name mentioned in conjunction with the America's Cup?
http://www.teamadventure.org/the-team.html
You'll get a kick out of this if you haven't seen it yet, Doug:
http://www.thedailysail.com/offshore...ins-speeddream

[Stephen Ditmore]

Originally Posted by RHough

Jimmy is driving for BMWO and you can probably fund a bare bones challenge for the cost to hire him away from Larry.

Then guilt tripping him will just have to be part of Australia's strategy. Does that make Glenn Ashby the logical skipper? Where would I learn more about SimonN and Far Kurnell?

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Stephen Ditmore

Have you heard Cam Lewis' name mentioned in conjunction with the America's Cup?
http://www.teamadventure.org/the-team.html
You'll get a kick out of this if you haven't seen it yet, Doug:
http://www.thedailysail.com/offshore...ins-speeddream

--------------
Thanks Stephen-I posted it in the "Sailboats" Speed Dream thread.....