34th America's Cup: multihulls!

the AC is all about technology and cheating....thats why its so popular or is it
sailors, designers and lawyers fighting for a win

What did Bernie say ' F1 needs people like Flavio' he said it before he was banned and still says it
 
Come on guys, don't be so conservative and retrograde. The sailing technology has to move forward, and will. I am all for fly-by-wire foiling sailboats, those who disagree and advocate the old purely mechanical multihulls are just bloodless mummified dinosaurs.

:P :P :P
 
most ( if not all) of the canters have a button for a tack to swap the keel over the the same angle other side...
spectacular when it goes the wrong way
 
Getting back to the Elevator discussion. Its not illegal to have a trimmable rudder at present. As Doug & others have said before... If I was asked to sort a rudder on a boat like this I'd say lets make it trimmable.. sail it a lot, learn what works then make a legal one for the race. So Oracle are doing the sensible thing at present. The idea that the design rules can be changed through the route of a safety requirement is clearly a different issue. Whether its a Trojan Horse we will know soon. I think the argument its to prevent pitchpoles is flawed on several levels, the best one is how does it do this when its out of the water? What if the operator slips and creates a pitchpole? We are in the shirt-fronting, brickmanship area at the moment and the next week will sort it out. Bring on the LV Cup!! Cheers Peter s
 
What is the current AC Class Rule? Is it this one: http://noticeboard.americascup.com/.../AC72_Class_Rule_v1-1_incl-Amendments-1-8.pdf ?

petereng said:
Getting back to the Elevator discussion. Its not illegal to have a trimmable rudder at present.
Click to expand...

If the class rule is the one in the above link, then there is the Rule 8.6 which says:
"Rudders shall not have components such as trim tabs or moveable winglets, that can be adjusted while racing. However, a movable or retractable device whose sole purpose is the removal of weed or debris is permitted."​

But then, there is also the Rule 9.6 which says:
"9.6 Daggerboards shall not have components such as trim tabs or moveable winglets that can be adjusted while racing; however, a movable or retractable device the sole purpose of which is the removal of weed or debris is permitted."​

So at which point did the movable surfaces on rudder and daggerboard for the purpose of controlling the lift and the pitching moment become legal, if they have become legal?
 
Daiquiri - That is the current discussion. The Design Rules say that trimming is not allowed yet the organisers are trying to introduce a rule through the safety review route that allows rudder elevators (and increased rudder size). Plus there is a determination that an elevator is allowed but cannot be used in the race ie it can be used up to the race preporatory time. The concern here is how do the race officials police that it is not used during the race? I think it goes to International arbitration this week in true AC style. Peter
 
34th AC

Peter, there is also the issue that Oracle has been using wide elevators with flaps since March and some of the other teams contend that gives them and unfair advantage. So TNZ is going to fill a protest with the International Jury which will meet a couple of days before racing is suposed to begin.
----
From Scuttlebutt Europe this morning:

Emirates Team New Zealand confirms its intention to file a protest with the America's Cup Jury seeking a ruling that the regatta director has exceeded his jurisdiction in seeking to unilaterally introduce changes to the AC 72 Class Rule.

The recommended changes relate to additional weight of the yachts and rudder elevators.

The team says that changes to the rule so close to the start of racing require the unanimous consent of all eligible competitors.

The proposed changes relate to two of the regatta director's 37 safety recommendations issued on the 22nd May 2013 following the Review Committee's report after the capsize of Artemis Racing.

Emirates Team New Zealand supports all the other safety recommendations, which have now been approved by competitors, including the reduction of wind limits and various new rules to ensure enhanced crew safety. However it is our view that the contentious Class Rule changes are performance-related rules not necessary to ensure safety.

The team says the organisers are wrong in seeking to legitimise the unauthorised Class Rule changes by seeking to use the jurisdiction of the Coast Guard to introduce these rules via the Marine Event Permit.

The decision of the jury will be final and binding on all parties, and contrary to some media speculation, any competitor who resorts to a Court in an issue where the Jury has jurisdiction immediately ceases to be eligible to compete.

Emirates Team New Zealand managing director Grant Dalton said: "We look forward to the jury determining the issue so, whatever the decision is, we can get on with the racing in the Louis Vuitton Cup starting July 7."

etnzblog.com
 
Which is exactly why Gary baigent refers to it as cheating... I see it the same, trim tabs on the foils or appendages are not allowed, and now they are trying to change the rules to allow it- because oracle is clearly having trouble maintaining stability...

That's not fair as the boats have already been designed and built to the current rules. You can't just go and move the goal posts now...
 
daiquiri said:
What is the current AC Class Rule? Is it this one: http://noticeboard.americascup.com/.../AC72_Class_Rule_v1-1_incl-Amendments-1-8.pdf ?



If the class rule is the one in the above link, then there is the Rule 8.6 which says:
"Rudders shall not have components such as trim tabs or moveable winglets, that can be adjusted while racing. However, a movable or retractable device whose sole purpose is the removal of weed or debris is permitted."​

But then, there is also the Rule 9.6 which says:
"9.6 Daggerboards shall not have components such as trim tabs or moveable winglets that can be adjusted while racing; however, a movable or retractable device the sole purpose of which is the removal of weed or debris is permitted."​

So at which point did the movable surfaces on rudder and daggerboard for the purpose of controlling the lift and the pitching moment become legal, if they have become legal?
Click to expand...
------------------------
The latest version of the rule permits( by not proscribing it) that the daggerboard top can move fore and aft by pivoting on the lower bearing. It can also pivot athwhartship about the lower bearing. They have to pivot the whole board(in a trunk within a trunk) and can't use flaps. The lower bearing cannot move(translate) which has led to fairly large lower bearings----- pages 13 and 14 below:
 

Attachments

And how did we arrive to the use of vertical-lift foils?

In the Section 1 (Definitions), item 1.4.e defines daggerboard as:
"daggerboard means a retractable appendage primarily used to affect leeway. The term daggerboard is synonymous with bilge board, centerboard, lifting keel and sliding keel"​
Since it's vertical lift capabilities have become determinant for the victory and a main design theme, is it still possible to claim that the primary function of this type of daggerboards is the control of the leeway? Isn't it more appropriate to say that it now has two equally important functions - leeway control and vertical lift?

Of course, saying it openly would automatically make it illegal according to the above definition, so perhaps I have again ended up giving an answer to my questions... ;)
 
daiquiri said:
And how did we arrive to the use of vertical-lift foils?

In the Section 1 (Definitions), item 1.4.e defines daggerboard as:
"daggerboard means a retractable appendage primarily used to affect leeway. The term daggerboard is synonymous with bilge board, centerboard, lifting keel and sliding keel"​
Since it's vertical lift capabilities have become determinant for the victory and a main design theme, is it still possible to claim that the primary function of this type of daggerboards is the control of the leeway? Isn't it more appropriate to say that it now has two equally important functions - leeway control and vertical lift?

Of course, saying it openly would automatically make it illegal according to the above definition, so perhaps I have again ended up giving an answer to my questions... ;)
Click to expand...
----------------------------
Vertical lift came about because if the rule doesn't specifically prohibit it ,it is allowed.
-----
See the sailing rules below. Thought that since racing is about to begin they would be handy to have to refer to. See rule 47.3 that specifically refers to preventing the windward board from adding to RM. I also will post,below, the Protocol describing the make up of the International Jury.
 

Attachments

Hi - Thanks for the updated rules Doug. They still have not fixed Appendix C and Appendix D drawings. I find it amusing that tack points are 9km and 13km from the J line and that in App C the boat is 22km long. If they can't get their drawings right how can they get their rules right? :) So currently all the boats are not AC72's as they are not long enough. :) This error has been there for a couple of years. Cheers Peter S
 
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