22m cruising cat design concept

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Becaris

Yes, sorry, I was talking about the Eco-Tri. As for the Kite-Assisted vessel, the problem there is that it is primarily a motoryacht, while I'm seeking primarily a sailing yacht. That vessel is also just way to large for what I need. Even my current concept is too large.
I'm currently scaling her back to about a 16 or 17 meter version.

Sorry but I'm a bit confused here as to what vessel you are making reference to being too large?? Are you referring to the Eco-Tri as being way too large? I assume so. And then I would believe you also consider the Humphrey's design (40M) as too large as well?

Note that I had suggested a 65-70 foot version of the Humphrey's design tri hull. That might even be reduced to 50-55 feet to fit your size requirement. She offers a lot of deck area for her size.

But then the tri-hull configuration offers less interior. So at that size go with the cat version

Sorry they both still have some diesel power. I think you might just have to have some of this for an ocean going vessel....at least for the next 10-15 years.


I want the vessel to make an ocean passage without ever having to fire up diesel engines and be crewed by only two to three people. When she is under power I'd like it to be electric motors running off batteries and solar power (with a diesel genset in reserve for emergencies).

I'll post pictures of the new size concept soon.[/quote]

[XHeeler]

is that a huge frontal wave could destroy your bridgedeck, as the force would be perpendicular to your windows and the overhanging flybridge and the water would have no place to go.

Maybe that is from watching too much "Deadliest Catch" over the weekend.

[Becaris]

No doubt you are correct XHeeler However, some of these shots are just early concepts meant to provoke discussion and 'you shouldn't do that' comments. I have currently changed the design (and no doubt will do so several more times). Pictures of the current 'look' were included in a different discussion I posted about future hybrid technologies for a sailing cat. You can see them there if you care.

Future Hybrid Catamaran Cruiser

[Becaris]

I've been playing with the concept design further. I've reworked the proportions and location of the cab to leave more hull distance forward. I've lowered the profile and slanted the cabin sides to make it more aerodynamic, particularly windward. There is a ten Kilowatt solar array (using existing dimensions for 315 watt panels). I've reduced the height of the sails to appropriate sizes based on the biplane rig (each mast now being 20m). The second set of solar panels sits on a raised hard canopy to give some extra deck space. The hull shape and depth are reworked to the dimensions of similar sized cats. The overall length of the yacht is now 20 meters.

So anyway, here are three pictures from the latest concept.

[Spiv]

Becaris,
2 more topics for you to consider:

1. Sloping windows might 'look' aerodynamicand 'fast', but the reality of things is they turn a boat into a hothouse. A walk through any marina will reveal hundreds of boats with canvas covers over their slanted windows to stop the sun. the more you go into the tropics the more you will suffer, just for some 'look'. you will notice that many 'commercial' vessels have vertical or outward sloping windows like you had in the original fly-bridge. Commercial andnavy people actually stay at sea, they have the practical know-how.
2. The rear targa concept to have the extra solar array is good, however what will happen to it the first time the boat is caughtin 50kn wind (60, 70Kn)? perhaps someone with the knowledge can work out for you the force that such a large 'Sail' surfacewill exert.

I am not able to give you any technical advice, but I come from a long life at sea, had many boats, mostly catamarans and I look at things with a more practical and safety conscious eye.

[Becaris]

I'm not sure if you are suggesting less glass or not sloped. Less glass is certainly possible, but I've looked at too many professionally designed cats now to not use a more sloped cab for better performance.

Here is a link to just one such discussion:
http://www.multihull-maven.com/Upping_the_efficiency

As for the 'Targa' toward the stern causing issues in high winds, I did think of that, and I'm working out a system where this can be raised or lowered and 'locked down'. Notice that the roof space under the 'Targa' matches it almost exactly (it is slightly larger). And the struts line up so that they can insert below. This is so that when things are headed for extreme weather I can make it more streamlined.. Making a system that can raise and lower the Targa without adding too much weight is still a problem, mostly due to the weight of current solar panels. But I am hopeful (from reading about new advances in solar) that these panels will eventually be getting lighter. (Otherwise the entire 10 kwh array is a weight issue anyway).

I added a picture so show it in the lowered position.

Originally Posted by Spiv

Becaris,
2 more topics for you to consider:

1. Sloping windows might 'look' aerodynamicand 'fast', but the reality of things is they turn a boat into a hothouse. A walk through any marina will reveal hundreds of boats with canvas covers over their slanted windows to stop the sun. the more you go into the tropics the more you will suffer, just for some 'look'. you will notice that many 'commercial' vessels have vertical or outward sloping windows like you had in the original fly-bridge. Commercial andnavy people actually stay at sea, they have the practical know-how.
2. The rear targa concept to have the extra solar array is good, however what will happen to it the first time the boat is caughtin 50kn wind (60, 70Kn)? perhaps someone with the knowledge can work out for you the force that such a large 'Sail' surfacewill exert.

I am not able to give you any technical advice, but I come from a long life at sea, had many boats, mostly catamarans and I look at things with a more practical and safety conscious eye.

Most valuable input!
The heat load under such windows will drive you nuts in the tropics (or even Florida, Med), the temp easily raises to 50° - 60 Celsius. One of the most successful range of Cat´s in the worlds charter fleets is the Lagoon series by Beneteau. Look them up and you know why!
The "Targa" will probably start to vibrate in heavy weather. But the idea of lowering it to house level is worth to be engineered thoroughly, I think.
A manually operated hydraulic can easily bear the load and doesnt cost the world.

Regards
Richard

[Alik]

Here is our concept of 60' cat but with working solutions. Note the windows protected form direct sunlight, plenty of flat deck/cabin areas for easy moving around. Another feature is aft master cabin (size 4x4m) with sliding door that forms 'aft balcony'. Flybridge 5x5m provides good 360 degrees visibility form steering station and also is perfect place for crew and guests (they can enjoy seaview instead of looking at cabin bulkhead).

[Spiv]

Alik,
very nice design, I can see you've put a lot of thought in it. Love that rear stateroom and the roof/ window lines.

Becaris,
unfortunately most of the so-called 'professionally designed' cats are designed for the ahestetics, rather than practicality as they need to please the uninformed masses.
Additionally some of them have never lived on a boat, trust me on that!
If they did, they would not suggest their future customers to have sloping windows.

Nice boat Alik!

[yipster]

Hi Spiv, did live for a while in the sun on a boat with sloped glas and blinds
(can even be canvas) outside over the glas takes much of the heat away

[Alik]

Thanks guys, hope this J60 cat will be built one day, now construction is postponed due to crisis.

Unfortunately these days we have too much influence of car styling in boat design. Result - many boats are glamour toys for marina, not really designed for the sea. Sorry to say, but many boat owners are getting brainwashed with 'styling' and 'high-tech', however these are just marketing tricks having nothing common with performance, safety and comfort.

>>>Result - many boats are glamour toys for marina, not really designed for the sea. Sorry to say, but many boat owners are getting brainwashed with 'styling' and 'high-tech', however these are just marketing tricks having nothing common with performance, safety and comfort.<<<

Unfortunately thats the plain truth.
Customers collect thousands of leaflets and brochures, calculate and discuss every tenth of a knot of performance,
and go to buy the "nicest".

[Alik]

I always say that our customers are 'owners of second boat'. So those who owned boat before - they know exactly what they want and appreciate practical inputs in design.

Look at this cat - extremely practical and designed for performance and long stay on board. But some would call it 'shoe box' Yes, it is not a Ferrari!

Well, I do´nt like it either! Verrry sorry Alik. But I am for sure not representative !
To the "owners of second boat" I tend more to say the seventh!