100' Tri IDEC capsizes in Atlantic Record Attempt

[catsketcher]

Hello Phillip

As probably the only forum poster who has done any serious sailing on these type of boats I was wondering if you could reply to some of my musings on these amazing boats. I have just done a 360 mile delivery trip on an ORMA 60 - Banque Populaire and I found the experience exhilarating, stupefying and all round other worldly.

These large tris don't seem to function the same way as our smaller cruisers do. The windward ama is very close to the water. In fact at rest the ama is only about 5-6ft in the air. On top of this the ama shape is very flat on the bottom. The result of this is that it was hard to slow the tri down as it would whack around pretty noisily in the slop we encountered. What would happen in a nasty sea is a worry. Would someone like Joyon be trying to keep moving or keep sail on to help ease the boat through waves whereas another design would be snugged under drogue or parachute?

I was pretty much stuffed after a tack with winching and winding the rig around. This was on a 60. How can a crew keep in shape with the huge physical demands of a massive boat and the lack of sleep you get form such a noisy platform?

I know that IDEC and Sodebo are not really 100 footers but lengthened 60 footers but they are still massive machines. They would seem to need slightly different tactics from Newickesque or Greene tris like Jeans Foster. Sebago was much like these boats being light for her length - maybe she needed special skills to handle her too.

I would appreciate your comments

cheers

Phil Thompson

[CatBuilder]

Not sure why I'm the only one who can read Peter Radclyffe's posts correctly, but it is obvious he is talking about the "capsize alarm."

That is the "junk" and "false sense of security" he's talking about here. I'd tend to agree with him.

[oldsailor7]

I don't understand how a mechanical or electronic "Capsize Alarm" can work.
At what point does it give warning and if the capsizing action is really fast how does it give warning in time before the point of no return is reached.
On my past boats I had a angle of heel indicator on the bulkhead right in front of my face,
but even that would be no good in the case of a violent gust like Joyon experienced.

[cavalier mk2]

We use a heel indicator as a tachometer and don't cruise near the redline but you'd need a gust sensor off the boat (RC scout? ) to know the full power of a gust. Even dumped sails offer resistance as they flog. If you can see extreme conditions approach they should be lowered. Flat webbing nets offer much more area when healed or wave jumping, wing masts offer unreefed area etc....I've doodled out under the boat, under water parasails to help keep an anchored craft from flying in severe conditions, maybe something along those lines could help at sea. Certainly anti flying foils deserve some contemplation for boats that are used in such conditions.

[gosailing]

Originally Posted by peter radclyffe

you must think i am stupid,i am well aware the capsize had nothing to do with faulty gear

"who designs this junk that does not work

who pays for false security, its better not to have it" Peter Radclyffe.

C'mon! read your quote. You trashed a piece of equipment that has kept IDEC the right way up for 60,000 miles. That's not fair game. Learn the facts! Nothing more time wasting than the misinformed passing judgement of the brave courageous trail blazers...god bless em!

[peter radclyffe]

quote
brave courageous trail blazers...god bless em!

youll be telling me next,there gonna die with their boots on

[catsketcher]

I don't want to get in a flame war but we have to understand that Joyon has already done amazing sailing in atrocious weather with this boat and it has worked very well so far. So to call some of the equipment - "junk" is not borne out by the fact that it did very well for a long time. I personally would think that if Joyon put it on his boat it must have been for a very good reason. I have had only the merest glimpse into these boats and I must say - the guys who put them together REALLY know their stuff. There are no extras on board going along for the ride.

cheers

Phil

[Corley]

Some of these big tri's have a main hull mounted water ballast tank (groupama3 and Ellen McCarthurs B&Q trimaran) to help stabilise the boat in tough conditions the rub is when should you fill it? He was heavily reefed when he was capsized and was on deck and threw the sheets on his sails. Joyon was racing and that means accepting a higher level of risk, I've nothing but respect for his skills and experience seems like one of those racing moments.