Motor Sailers?

[Viceroy]

I'm familiar with the majority of conventional motor sailers, mostly the European models (Fisher, Nauticat, etc.) but feel there is still room for improvement. In the world of aging sailors, the comfort of an enclosed pilothouse and inside stearing is more than appealing to this group. My ideal vessel would reduce the compromises of good sailing and good motoring characteristics. Further, in the 38' - 45' range, a couple should be able to comfortably operate and live aboard for extended periods with the conveniences of most shore-side systems. Only occassional, short-term guests would be on board so separate cabins and heads would be eliminated, in favour of one large master stateroom and head/shower/bath. A couple of sea berths would be sufficient. The pilot house would have comfortable seating and a dining area with ports/windows to enjoy the view. Despite these windows - storm covers - the vessel should be capable of ocean passages. In addition to good sailing, an engine should be powerful enough to give a good turn of speed in an engine room that provides ease of maintenance...with room for a generator, water maker, furnace/hot water heater and bank or batteries.
Question...are there any new designs and builders devoted to motor sailing vessels as described?
Cheers, Richard.

[Stephen Ditmore]

I don't have an imediate answer, though I suspect there is a good one. Meanwhile, see http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=2 for some discussion of motorsailers. If you're interested in a custom design and willing to pay for it, I'd be interested in this assignment. If you want a production boat, give me a little time and I'll see what I can come up with. What boats that you've seen come closest? How much draft are you willling to tollerate?

You might want to check out three British lines:
http://www.northshore.co.uk/yachts/south/south.htm
http://www.oystermarine.com/oyster42.html
http://pacificcoast.net/~dhamilton/fog.html

And definately check out:
http://members.tripod.com/banjer37ms...torsailing.htm

[Polarity]

http://www.nauticat.com/

[Stephen Ditmore]

As I reread your post, Richard, I see you mention the Fishers and Nauticats. Well, if you want to improve windward performance then I'd ask how much draft you can tollerate, or if you'd consider a lifting keel. If you want speed on a broad reach then I'd encourage you to think long & lean, like the famous Laurent Giles 111' Blue Leopard or a Deerfoot, Dashew, or McGregor 65, only smaller. Are you serious about a custom vessel, or are you looking for a production boat or an existing used boat?

[Viceroy]

Greetings, Stephen and Polarity...many thanks for your insightful comments and leads. Lots of study before I unleash from shore. FYI, I really would prefer a pure power vessel but my first mate is keen on seeing canvas stretched...and the cost per mile travelled lowered...for our eventual retirement afloat. I'll let you know when a compromise has been reached and a vessel selected. Cheers, Richard.

I am currently discussing the design details for a similar project with a repeat client. He is interested in a motorsailer in the range of 38-40 feet, large turn of speed under power, pleasant accomodations, etc. We are tentatively planning for the design to be completed and ready for construction of the prototype boat in mid-to- late summer. His domestic situation is similar to what you describe: retired, likes distance sailing, wants room for occasional overnight guests, etc. We expect to market the design when complete and trialled. Contact me if you would like to discuss this further.

[Viceroy]

Avast, "Guest"...by all means, I would be delighted to be kept in the loop. You can e-mail me at <Ramsay64@aol.com>. I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers, Richard.

I design steel "motorsailers" because I don't like to call them sailboats or auxiliaries. They are built a little heavier with more tankage. see my site at http://persweb.direct.ca/tbolt

[Polarity]

Hi Trevor
welcome to the forums, actualy I really like your cruiser/racer http://persweb.direct.ca/tbolt/Aura.htm

Cheers

Paul

[Portager]

I share your enthusiasm for MOTORsailors and many of your objectives, but not for your first mates justification.

My boat will have a 3,500 NM range on 350 gallons of diesel. If the sail could reduce my fuel consumption by 50%, I'd pay off a $10,000 roller furling Bermuda rig in about 6.25 circumnavigations. If I use a home made Junk sail at <$1,000, I still need to go >15,000 NM to break even.

So why do I want a sail? Well, (1) get home drive, (2) stabilization, (3) insurance rates (4) looks and (5) maybe I'll save a little on fuel.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[tspeer]

Here's a 42' design with enclosed pilot house, very seaworthy for offshore passages, good speed under sail, efficient under power, a generous outside cockpit, and separate cabins if desired. I think it meets all your criteria quite handily.

http://www.ChrisWhiteDesigns.com/atl...2/default.html

[Portager]

Richard;

You might want to look at Michael Kasten's web site http://www.kastenmarine.com/.

I am particularly fond of the GreatHeart 36 http://www.kastenmarine.com/greatheart36.htm and the Wave Runner 36 http://www.kastenmarine.com/wave_runner.htm which are displacement and semi-displacement hulls with common interior arrangements. When fitted with a get home sail these design meet most of your requirements. If you fit bilge keels to the GreatHeart 36 design they will improve sail performance, improve roll stabilization and, by providing additional fuel storage volume, they provide more room in the engine room for your generator, water maker, furnace/hot water heater and bank of batteries.

By the way, the battery bank should not be located in the engine room. Elevated temperatures significantly reduce battery life. The batteries should be located in a compartment separate from or isolated from the engine room heat and vented for light gas (hydrogen) emissions. The batteries should be a spill proof type (i.e. valve regulated) or configured with a drip pan to catch and contain sulfuric acid. Vented batteries should be located or enclosed so that if salt water accumulates in the bilge it can not enter the battery vent holes (and produce toxic chlorine gas).

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Viceroy]

To all who have replied to my original inquiry, many thanks for your comments and advice. As a work in progress, at least at this discovery/research point, I have to admit to a bias to mono hulls rather than multi hulls. Further, we (my better half, actually) prefer an over-sized & fully windowed deckhouse, as most sailing hulls "are like living in a cave". Sorry about that! Sketches still pour off my writing desk as compromises arise...but that's what designing is all about. Thankfully, a couple of years remain before all the bits and pieces can be (hopefully) knitted together into something that resembles a "pretty" and accomodating vessel worthy of everyones effort. Thanks again, Cheers, Richard.

[Stephen Ditmore]

Trevor Bolt - I like what I see. Nice web site! How near are you to Tad Roberts <http://www.tadroberts.com/>? I could imagine you collaborating on a boat for Richard.

I looked through the Kasten sailboats, Richard, and you might also want to check out http://www.kastenmarine.com/shiraz.htm, though this is a bigger boat than you stipulated (and I may be biased by having dated a Shiraz briefly).
I'm big on self pitching propellers such as an AutoProp <http://www.autoprop.com/> or (for larger yachts) controllable pitch such as a Hundested Propulsion System <http://www.hundestedpropeller.dk/> for motorsailers in order to make most efficient use of the ability to operate under sail and power simultaneously.

[Portager]

Do you have experience with AutoProp?

For small yachts, I thought the Sabb HVP controllable pitch propeller http://www.sabb.no/engelsk/hvp_gear.htm would be better than AutoProp (although I have no personal experience with either) because you can feather the prop and control the pitch of the blades. The Sabb HVP is also more economical than the Hundested props for the power range they cover.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley