Containerable Motorsailers

[Freenacin]

Here's a containerable motorsailor tri hull in aluminium: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...boat-9093.html

[Squidly-Diddly]

The stretched Macgregor will be much like a the M26...but to the max trailering length of under 40'.

Except that the 'perment ballast' will be a big bank of easily accessible 12 volt batteries and the water ballast will be two separtate tanks (actually more like 4 to have bow/stern trimming as well as more options for fuel, fresh, blackwater, diesel AND gas, etc.

The Macgregor 26M is a nice design, but with just a minor mod to the interior floor mold Mr. Macgregor could have 6-8 batteries and 100 gallons of fresh water. The batteries would be a nice alternative to firing up the 50 horse outboard; they make 2 hp electrics for pushing pontoon boats and you could fit two on an 26M outside the twin rudders.

I'm almost tempted to do some serious mods to a 26M. I'd have the shower be outside in the cockpit with a self coiling hose and electical 'on demand' pump and water heater. The 'fresh water' ballast wouldn't need to be drinking water, just for lots of hosing off before entering the cabin. I'd rather take a shower outside rather than try to keep clean using some problematic 'in boat' shower.

An outside in the cockpit shower wouldn't need a grey water tank as you would be just rinsing 'the great outdoors' of people and things before entering the cabin.

Water ballast in a great idea for a trailerable boat, plus water wont pull you to the bottom like lead will. But to be a decent sailor I think you would want to be able to transfer the bulk of it from side to side.

The Cat in the Box would be a 40' cat with 40' x 4' hulls connected by poles decked with either a tramp or some sort of solid removeable decking.

I'm thinking of a aft wishbone mast cutter rig with a third windsurfer type sail aft. I'd use spare sails to construct a 3 sided tent on deck.

In either boat I'd consider using the trailer frame as a aft wish bone mast. I'd even have provision for detaching the wheels and tires and mounting them on the flat on the deck as fenders so nothing would need to be left on shore.

I think it would be possible to carry the tow vehicle itself on the deck of a Cat in the Box, including ramps for on-off loading. The 'killer app' would be to tow the boat to the beach, lauch the boat, expand the scissors (poles) to separtate the hulls, use the trailer as the mast, drive the tow vehicle up ramp (or pull up with winch) and sail away. Reverse at next land fall.

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by Freenacin

Here's a containerable motorsailor tri hull in aluminium: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...boat-9093.html

I'm asking myself what that "triflection principle" is. What I see is a non-streamlined hull and amas....

[Guillermo]

Not a pilothouse motorsailer, but a new 40' trailerable and containerable sailing boat just coming from our fellowmember Eric Sponberg. Congs, Eric!

http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/SC40News.htm

[Tad]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

I'm asking myself what that "triflection principle" is. What I see is a non-streamlined hull and amas....

Another classic example of a fellow claiming a breakthrough in performance which does not appear once the boat has been launched. By all means he deserves credit for following through and actually building the boat, but the result of his "home cooked" design work is not entirely happy. The original claim was a top speed of 20 knots with 60 HP, in reality he mentions achieving 10 knots. He theorizes about needing double the 60HP installed to achieve 15 knots. This is about what would be expected from any narrow flat-bottomed 40' boat.

At her designed weight and speed this "flat sectioned" hull may have had less wetted surface and created smaller waves, but in her real life condition (low speed and over weight) the square sectioned tri has very high wetted surface. Thus she requires more power than a round bottom vessel of similar dimensions.

[Tad]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

Container Yachts, LLC, in Middletown, Rhode Island, USA, is building a 39 ft. Robert Perry designed pilothouse motorsailer that can be shipped in a standard high cube container. The prototype boat "InBox" is schedule to be launched in August on the west coast of the US. The series production boats are being built in Croatia with the first boats to be delivered in early 2007.

More info on this new approach to worldwide hopping with your own boat, at:
www.containeryachts.com

I want you to note displacement and other data stated at their web pages are in lightship condition.

Your opinions, ladies and gents.

Well, after three years it seems no one has taken up this concept. I don't see any further boats having been built beyond the prototype. Also no evidence of competition at all.

Why is this?

It's always difficult to figure out why a particular product does not succeed. I often suspect poor salesmanship/marketing and under capitalization rather than failings in the product itself.

But some speculation is always fun. On the concept itself I see a few big pitfalls. First is that fewer Americans (and this boat is totally aimed at America) are traveling outside their own country. Those that do go overseas want (must have) to take their expansive lifestyle with them. Thus they see 45-60' motoryachts as the minimum for long-term cruising and living aboard. This requires a different demographic. People that can afford to purchase the InBox at $500k can not afford to travel. The folks that can afford to travel (retired) have no problem with the capital cost of a much larger vessel and the shipping via Dockwise or similar.

Next I see a huge concern with unknown boatyards assembling critical components. Are you going to trust joe in outer Mongolia to bolt your keel on properly? If he doesn't you may die! We read about keels falling off all the time! It would seem the lifting keel and rudder would be a much better bet if undertaking such a vessel.

Finally the arrangement of the boat is really not too good from my point of view. A pilothouse with seating for one, and everyone else (your partner) relegated to living in the tunnel with no view of anything. Also sitting in the cockpit staring forward at a white box is none too appealing.

[FAST FRED]

"Finally the arrangement of the boat is really not too good from my point of view. A pilothouse with seating for one, and everyone else (your partner) relegated to living in the tunnel with no view of anything. Also sitting in the cockpit staring forward at a white box is none too appealing."

We went aboard INBOX in Newport RI , and spent an hour or so aboard.

The accomidations were reasonable , in terms of sheer volume,if not layout.
One could live aboard for a few months , esp. in inland cruising where large stores are not required..

We decided to use the concept of a boxable boat , but the Perry setup was a disaster for shipping.
Keel, rudder , sail drive and mast and rigging all had to be removed, UGH.

We decided a pure power boat could be far easier to ship.Remove nothing!

Therefore the interest in the Atkin setup of box keel and reverse deadrise.

A BKRD could simply be boxed with pipe rollers .
The pilot house would have to lower , but this is common on many Euro inland canal boats .

The biggest hassle is weather the BKRD would prove effcicient at semi displacement speeds, of course Atkin made many spectacular claims , but there seems a lack of real world experience,.

The other question of course is sea worthyness of a hull with Loa of 39 and a beam of 7ft 6 inches..

It should run fine in smooth water and the stern lifting with speed might make it economical , but what happens when crossing between islands and the breeze gets to 35K?

In other words when would the boat become unmanagable and a danger to operate?


Many folks that wish to "cruise" desire a home afloat , with all the goodies of suburban living.
This is indeed really expensive, just shipping it could run $50K per movement.

We envision a boat similar to a an old Thunderbird sail boat. Simple ply interior , painted .

The only lifestyle requirement would be a 2 burner range with oven , and a propane fridge freezer, and a hyd windlass.

No air cond , gen set , washer drier , flat screen TV , water maker , stabelizers and all the rest.

The difficulty of understanding the prerformance has had us look at a building concept .
Build the hull and deck , probably welded aluminum , but just the bare basics.

Power it with a gas engine to find out performance and seaworthyness , then if it works well, dump the gas engine , install a mechanical injected diesel and spend the big bucks for ports pilot house and interior.

If it doesn't perform ,as hoped, there would still be a use for the bare boat for shallow water fishing.

The low cost of shipping a container should allow the hull to be created in a low wage area , and shipped home to outfit.

I don't wish to hijack the MS thread , but the concept of cruising distant places without the time , hassle or vessel scantlings for real ocean crossing IS probably more realistic for folks with a MS mindset , than the pure power go fasts , or the monster trawler condo folks.

Comments?

FF

FF

[lacage]

If you go to my web site and click on my Blog Spot you will see the progress of my 19 foot container boat, using the Bourne Method of Boat Building.
www.bourneboats.com.au Cheers from down under Peter

[rwatson]

Why are you using rusty re-inforcing again, Do you get it cheap or something?
And using radiata pine panelling by the look of it too. Thats not very good for wet work.

Also, who designed the hull and did the bouyancy and stability calcs?

[rwatson]

Hmmm ... Not much progress on Peters 19ft container boat at his web-site.

Maybe he is getting some calculations done - they take a while. My NA had a hard enough problems with optimising my container width trailer/sailer in light weight materials, let along a nineteen footer with a steel re-inforcing.

[Guillermo]

Just to gather the information on containerable motorsailers here, let me do a cross-link to Brian Eiland's post in his thread 'New Age Trawler/Motorsailer; Kite assisted PowerYacht' about an interesting design:
New Age Trawler/Motorsailer; Kite assisted PowerYacht

Cheers.

P.S. Tad informs info on this boat had been posted before in this thread and he's right. See post #106 and further discussion. I'm getting old....

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

P.S. Tad informs info on this boat had been posted before in this thread and

he's right. See post #106 and further discussion. I'm getting old....

A photo makes all the difference though Guillermo in drawing attention to an item.

Beau wrote to me via an email

Originally Posted by Beau

The original "double wedge" design concept came from a patent put out by Alberto Calderon USA patent number 6158369 Dec 12 2000.
You can get an extract from www.delphion.com which is free but the full patent may cost a couple of dollars to download.
Alberto Calderon is a mathematician and worked for the America's cup team.
The patent is a bit heavy going, and essentially deals with large ships.

I built a number of 15 ft plywood prototypes to test his concepts, and it does work. However the problem is (and I think he has found the same thing) how do you put those principles into a practical boating solution.

Interesting Beau. It turns out the Peter Payne who developed the SeaKnife concept was also a very accomplished mathematician.

And he experienced those same problems in marketing an 'unusual idea' to the boating public. Fortunately he worked with some defense contractors here in the Wash DC area, and pitched a lot of these ideas to the Navy...got some monies for prototypes as well.

I knew of some of his original work here on the Chesapeake Bay while I was involved at the time with Navy submarines. My interest was rekindled recently when I began to look for new RIB ideas. I've developed a few concepts, but the market is not ready.

Beau's use of the word 'wedge' caught my attention. Have a look at another wedge shaped hull design that I discuss here:
Sea Knife
YachtForums.Com - View Single Post - Trimarans and the BladeRunner...
and look at the two other postings #46, #48

[FAST FRED]

Don't know how the commercial success of INBOX is measured , but there is an add in Cruising world , this month , that probably cost $4K for the space.

Either its a REALLY! expensive hobby /tax dodge or some sales must be generating revenue for the add.

FF

[dskira]

For God sake, why you have to put a boat in a container?
It is by concept ridiculous. It is against the nature of a BOAT.
I don't get anyone taking this assignment, but this is just my two cents
Cheers
Daniel

[rwatson]

Hmm - no, I think it makes a lot of sense. eg

1) How many people would like to spend 6 months in geographically diverse parts of the world, without having to spend the other half of the year getting there. Also, the cost of long distance sailing in fuel, gear food and maintenance should also take into account the lost wages. In six months you can earn enough to get you and your boat to some exotic locations in safety and comfort. Thats important if you have a young family and dont want to risk their lives to cross seriously dangerous waters. I would rather work for 6 months, to pay to ship the boat to Turkey, and fly the family to join the boat than risk pirates, cyclones, reefs and beauracratic nightmares thrashing my way across the Indian ocean and through the dangerous Suez canal.

2) Boats like the Macgregor 26 cost 1/4 as much to ship to Australia as the non containerable Hunter 28. If you want to sell a boat overseas, shipping it in non-container form is an administrative and insurance nightmare.

3) Off season storage in stacks of 4 containers is 1/4 of the cost of trailer parks, and do away with cleaning and security problems.

No-one argues the case for the trailerable yacht, especially given marina charges etc. Being containerable adds a new dimension to the business.