Containerable Motorsailers

[FAST FRED]

I really like the idea of a boat that can cross oceans cheaply in a box.

The Perry design looks fine , but I think even better could be done.

First I think construction in hard chine aluminum would be less costly and as the vessel might be shipped via truck or really hard on the box contents rail , the aluminum would merly dent , rather than overflex and perhaps fail later.

Aluminum would also allow 2nd or 3rd world construction of the vessel to lower the cost.

Perrys unbolting keel could be replaced with a centerboard , so the boat could simply be slid into the container on greased lumber, and unloaded with a stout pull .
Comfort aboard for bumpy conditions would be easy to handle with a gyro,as well as the sail rigs dstabilizing effect.


"MHI's (Mitshubishi ) first ARG, the MSM-500, was developed and marketed in 1995 for small boats with displacements below 5 tons. It features angular momentum of 500 Nms (Newton meter second), weighs 130kg, and measures 710mm in width, 516mm in height, and 470mm in length. Subsequently, in response to customer needs MHI has developed higher-power models: the MSM-2000/4000/12000.

By installing ARG systems in multiple units, it is possible to accommodate vessels with displacements above 5 tons all the way up to 500 tons. In Japan, MHI has already sold 220 ARG systems for public-sector, commercial and private use, including cruise ships, sightseeing boats, fishing boats, pleasure craft and patrol boats."

I would envision the vessel to be mostly a motorboat , with the sail portion for "get home" , nice reaching days , or to extend the range at favorable times.
Fully battened main and a window shade roller forestaysails set up as a Cutter.

The roller jibs would be sewn to chain , rather than to wire (as was done in the 1860's) so would be easy to bag , so a variety could be carried aboard.

The mainmast would be 28% foward of the stern , so flopper stoppers could be used , if the electric roll stuff is to pri$y.Not ideal , but with a longish keel and centerboard board , she should sail fine.

An intereior similar to the Perry design would be fine , but the stove would be moved athawartships , rather than against the hull.
If a hot pot gets tossed with the hull mount 50% chance it scalds the hull, 50% chance it scalds the COOK! No thanks.

As a more motory boat the deck could be closer to the "Express" or "Sedan" style .

No distant offshore adventures would be planned , why bother , the Big Box Maru would go faster & cheaper, but a quickie, like a trip to Bermuda or the Carribean from the US East Coast should be in the scantlings .

Any thoughts ?

FAST FRED

[Guillermo]

Interesting thoughts, Fred. For sure there are probably many improvements to be done once the basic idea is accepted by the market.

From Yachting World magazine's pages:
"The yacht looks well done but the acid test will be her debut at shows this autumm. We're wondering wether the modern 'boater' can live that 'narrow' these days...."

[Tad]

We started exploring the containerable yacht concept over a year ago, focusing on a purely power boat. The containerable trawler or "Volkstrawler" designed to fit in a standard 40' container. She is designed to be built in sheet material, ideally aluminum. With a square "pod" bottom of thick (1" or 25mm) aluminum she would sit up straight anyplace and skid in and out of the box without falling over. The pilothouse comes apart for shipping, similar to what the European canal barges use. Two or three windshield styles would be offered, and there are big windows in the topsides forward.

[yipster]

following the thread some questions come up
is 265 cm a max roadworthy container beam ?
shipping a 15x3.5 meter boat as normal freight
acros an ocean really cost bout €/$ 30.000 ?
anyone has container sizes and shipping prices ?

[Guillermo]

Yipster,
On your last question, I've posted this link at post # 63 in this thread: http://www.dif.com.do/contmar.htm
It's in spanish, but I think easily understandable.


Tad,
Interesting boat. Some more specs and layout....?

[FAST FRED]

With lightweight aluminum constriuction the fuel economy of many of the newer boats in the 34 ft (but beamier ) range should be avilable.

Claims of 30K at 10gph with single Volvo and outdrive are seemingly accurate.

3 Nmpg is a good deal at that speed. Wonder if it would get even better at say 20K ?

Steyer has an outdrive setup , that weighs even less but there is little info on these engines here in US.

Do the hold up as well as the marinized lightweight engines ( no cont or work ratings) Volvo uses?

5+nmpg would be a dream in a boxable boat.

FAST FRED

[Arthur W. Kelly]

Does anyone have an e-mail address or number to reach Andy Pitt?

Thanks

[FAST FRED]

While not a MS it would seem the skinny hull style required to fit in a box was done over a century ago.

A more modern style can be seen ,

Take a look at this from Vosper Thornycroft
http://foxxaero.homestead.com/indrad_033.html

Scaled down to 39 ft X 7ft it might be a 5+mpg cruiser , if built light .

FAST FRED

[Guillermo]

Could be a nice idea, Fred.
Containerable truly semidisplacement motor boats maybe another nice option for worlwide extensive cruising.
Tad Roberts posted on June 26 his ideas about this, the most ineteresting "Volkstrawler", but provided no more data after that. A pity.
A 39.5 ft length having a 8 ft beam would do the trick, the B/L would be in 0.2 which seems to be low. Stability may not be satisfactory. Tad?

Here an interesting Tad's article on his Passagemaker Lite concept:
http://www.tadroberts.ca/about/pdf/p...pb-article.pdf

[FAST FRED]

"Stability may not be satisfactory."

The envisioned use for this class vesssel would not include offshore passagemaking .

If the pilot house were robust , with commercial grade ports and doors righting from inverted should be possible, although seldome needed..

ON another thread I am trying to figure if a centerline roll controll would be practical.

ALL my cruising has been done in sail boats and displacement trawlers, that did roll.

IS roll controll even needed after the boat starts to run at 15K to 20K?

If NOT all that is needed is a good design that will get 5mpg! at those speeds .

Is this realistic in a 39 x 7.7 under 10,000 lb boat?

FAST FRED

[Raggi_Thor]

[quote=FAST FRED.... run at 15K to 20K?
Is this realistic in a 39 x 7.7 under 10,000 lb boat?
FAST FRED[/QUOTE]

Estimate: 5 tons, 16 to 20 HP per ton ( 16^0.5 * 3.5 to 4 = 14 to 16 knots),
-> 80 to 100HP -> 20 to 25 liters per hour

[Guillermo]

From Container Yachts pages:
"InBox, the Container Yachts prototype Far Harbour 39, launched on August 29th at Schooner Creek Boat Works in Portland (OR). Highlights of the launch were a Champagne, beer and pizza party for the yard crew who had been working around the clock in order to complete the boat in time to make the Newport, Rhode Island boat show.
The boat worked out of the box, meeting her design parameters. A power sea trial on August 30th confirmed the top end speed of 8.3 knots and an 800 NM under power range at cruising speed.
The next day's sail trial conducted with the Robert Perry Staff validated InBox as a performance cruiser. With ten knots apparent wind, the beat to weather numbers were 4.7 knots and 6.7 knots reaching with the furling code zero.The cockpit's tiller steering helped in optimizing her sailing performance.Tacking to weather and gybing down wind went smoothly."
http://www.containeryachts.com

[FAST FRED]

Happily we are only a couple of hours away from Newport and will be there Sept 14 ,really early to view the Box Boat.

Our prime concern is to see if the interior volume would be acceptable for 2 or 3 month vacations.

I think it would be fine ,
but "She Who Must be Obeyed" has to feel comfortable .

To afford to step up to a custom boat ( even with the build in a low cost area ) would require selling the present boat , and a year or more ashore.

FAST FRED

[Guillermo]

Excellent, Fred.
Let's know about your opinion on the boat.
Chhers.

[FAST FRED]

Went to the Newport show , and found the Boxboat .

The "look" from the dock was OK but a bit unique as the foward freeboard was high , and of course at 7.7beam she looked really strange.
\Not "bad" but certainly different.

The boat function was superb , Perry is a good designer , and the use of space was fine.
Below she was not cramped , and it was EZ to not remember how slim the hull actually is
.As a MS as built she would do great ,.
The builders claim the actual performance beats the polar predictions.
Most amazing was the LACK of roll or movement on boarding from the side.
I guess the deck lever is so low the boat seems really stiff.
The sellers claim she heels over in a modest breeze , but in a puff , just accelerates , similar to what a good multy hull would do.

We definitely feel that a similar sized power boat would fit our needs as a 3 or 4 months a year brown water cruiser.
The key for us is there seems to be sufficent volume to cruise , and not go BESERK when it rains for a week!

Am very open to sugestions for the basic "look" or other ideas..

We enjoy the "classic Commuter" look , but are open to sugestions.

FAST FRED