Welding a steel hull

[TollyWally]

Brent,
I wonder if you could, in a nutshell, define an origami boat for me. I've been to a site or two about them but perhaps a word or two from the horse's mouth so to speak. They don't seem to be a whole lot different from the epoxy stitch and glue boats but perhaps that is my ignorance showing.

[Brent Swain]

You got it . Its exactly like stitch and glue epoxy , only using steel or aluminium and welding instead of plywood and epoxy. Using conic ends greatly enhances the strength and aesthetics. With metal, we get to put the longitudinals and bulwark caps on first ,before pulling them together.
Brent

[apex1]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

You got it . Its exactly like stitch and glue epoxy , only using steel or aluminium and welding instead of plywood and epoxy. Using conic ends greatly enhances the strength and aesthetics. With metal, we get to put the longitudinals and bulwark caps on first ,before pulling them together.
Brent

Brent Swain
I was never on your side, never have any good word for you, never have accepted your repeatedly advertisement, never liked your contribution on any thread and topic, but in this case, I must say, your reply is a worthwhile. So, excuse please, when I contradicted too much.


But please, do not forget to tell the people where the harder issues of a origami building are.

[Brent Swain]

You get a bit baged pulling a 36 footer together in two or three days.Once the centreline is together, it wears a guy out climbing inside over and over again. Sliding the decks in place is a workout, so best take a day off every two or three days. Once the decks are on, you are walking on flat surfaces again and you can go a lot further before getting bagged.
Where the chine turn into the conic end it's good idea to grind a bit of a groove beyond the end of the chine to allow the transition from chine to rond to be smoother.
Beyond that there is no diffcult point.
Brent

[Brent Swain]

Wynand. Its easy to get from working full time to cruising full time. It's a simple matter of redirecting your ingenuity from finding ways to aquire more money ,to finding ways to minimise the need for money.
This will also reduce your environmental foot print porportionately, your environmental foot print being directly porportionate to how much money you spend. It will also reduce your stress level and your vulnerability to the whims of the economy, possibly adding decades to your life expectancy. Simply not having to work full time will add decades to your free lifetime.
No one ever lay on their death bed wishing they had worked more.
It's a question of how much do you own, and how much of it owns you.
Brent

[Ad Hoc]

Brent
I don't know anything about these "origami" boats...I'd love to see them being constructed...got any pic's?

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Ad Hoc

I'd love to see them being constructed...got any pic's?

O ou.. he got you

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

O ou.. he got you

Only if he is a complete simpleton and cant Google the info.

Do you think they are fiction TD ?

try http://www.freewebs.com/origamiboats/

for a start - there are even films on YouTube as i am sure Brent can point you to

[Ad Hoc]

Im interested in what Brent does, not others..., that's the point of my comment

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by rwatson

Do you think they are fiction TD ?

Nope! Nor are Jehova's and I hope they don't got ya either

[Brent Swain]

Alex Christie made a video of a 36 going together. You can reach him for a copy at achristie@shaw.ca
There are sequence photos of a 36 going together on the origamiboats website. Just do a search under origamiboats and pick the first one ( yahoo groups)
Also some great photos of some great origami boats. My book has the building sequence photos, as well as a lot of other usefull boatbuilding information.
It's obvious that some hicks dont want you to look any further into origami boatbuilding, so you will understand the subject of this debate. They obviously haven't , and thus they clearly don't understand the subject matter.
Ignore the childish jeers of the adolescent hicks.
Brent

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by MikeJohns

Brent
That's a typical misunderstanding

Any sailboat designer looking at these lines will tell you that you could have expected such an experience and that this is a half way bastard form that was quickly abandoned.

All totally predictable today with those calculations and theories you are so afraid of

Also note that the tank testing was for wave making resistance not for directional control .

Exactly, tank testing tells you nothing about the most important aspect of offshore design, directional stability, something the "Expert "who designed this boat knew nothing about.
Sadly, this was not a flash in the pan, quickly abandoned design tendency, but the short keel with attached rudder, six feet or more foreward of where it should have been, was common all thru the 50's, 60's and into the 70's , on boats like Albergs , Pearsons, Spencers, Kettenburgs, Rawsons ,Vegas etc etc , all of which could be greatly improved by moving the rudder much further aft and hanging it on a skeg, something I considered, with almost zero sailing experience, but deferred to the 'Experts" of the time. Big mistake! Most Sparkman and Stephens boats of this era copied the same mistake in underwater profile, short keel with attached rudder, far too far foreward..
They were considered the top "Experts" of the time.
Brent

[MikeJohns]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

Exactly, ........something the "Expert "who designed this boat knew nothing about............Big mistake!
Brent

I'd be careful with the expert bit.
Wasn't it the case that the designer actually majored as an Architect (civil graduated Princton Uni in 1938), later he worked as a 'yacht designer' he was never qualified in the 'yacht design' field so maybe it pays for you to check your experts before using this as an argument.

There were NA's and other yacht designers who critiscised the trend of shortened keels with directly attached rudders with poor turning moments even it the days that boat was being designed. Perhaps they were the real experts of the day and they knew enough to predict the problems.

Many yacht deisgns were designed to fashion and a rating, and using old rules of thumb that were meant for different planforms. In the same era you will find very well designed and very directionally stable vessels.

These days more analytic approaches predominate and there is enough acrued data for some good guidelines and books for any designer to do a reasonable job.

[TollyWally]

Brent,
Would designs that were first made for stich and glue like the boats of Sam Devlin work "origami" style? I realize there would be some adjustments for weight etc.

[Brent Swain]

They would work exactly the same, but the weight would have to be calculated and compared, just like any other change of building material.
Brent