Which Welding Machine???

[schoobie]

I ordered plans and cutting files to build a steel sailboat 44ft long. I plan to hire a certified welder with a helper down in Mexico to do all the welding job.

But I am just not sure which welding maching should I buy?

I found a local guy selling the XMT® 456 CC/CV and the SuitCase X-TREME? 12VS for $3,500 USD both, including a wheel of wire, plus $50 USD for S&H. It is kind of a combined package, I guess like combos at McDonalds... ha ha ha

I have no idea if will I ever use the suitcase extreme, perhaps I could ask him to price only the 456CC? Even so, is the 456cc the one? How about the pricing? I could not find much on the internet to compare.

I love sailboats, but I have started to think that later down the road, I would like to build a powerboat. Later meaning 4-5 years from now.

[marshmat]

Hi schoobie,
Firstly, welcome aboard bd.net
I haven't used any of the equipment you're considering, and given the variety of welding gear out there, you might have a tough time finding someone with this exact combination.
First thing- how much welding experience do you have? If you're looking at a $5,800 welder and $1,500 feeder (those are Miller's list prices for the gear you mention, rounded off USD), I would presume you're already pretty proficient with the basics of the trade.

[schoobie]

Hey Matt,

I have zero experience on welding, and not proficient with ther basics of the trade. But I know that down in Mexico, the average wage for a certified welder is $200k/week, inclunding Saturdays. A 55 hours/week.

So, when purchasing the welding machine, what should I look for?

[safewalrus]

Make friends with a welder, tell how brilliant he is buy him some beers, mention the project (don't tell where you intend to build!) string him along a bit (actually it may in the end be worthwhile staying were you are) get him to pick for you, he'll no doubt find you something that will work pretty well! think about it a bit more and price it up - whoa it's cheaper in Mexico, Hell I'll get it done down there! Actually when you price the whole damn job it might just not be that much difference (so the actual guy is cheaper but what about other things?) Up to you! It ain't dishonest, you are pricing remember (and thinking) it may be unethical but hell you can live with that - you wouldn't be asking total strangers how to go about the job else would you? luck with the project!

[Frosty]

Schoobie, First of all you can down load a translation of Walrus=English from the internet.

I would wait till you employed someone,-- then ask him what welder he wants.
Then he cant blame the welder for crap work.

Just for tacking stuff together you can use a real cheapo stick welder 100 dollar job. Then weld stuff together and practise,--just weld, weld, weld, then when you read a book,-- you know what they are talking about.

[M&M Ovenden]

Hi Schoobie,
My welding setup includes a Miller Suitcase with a 15ft welding gun and for boat building I would not consider any different set up except maybe consider the Lincoln equivalent portable feeder (LN-25 I think). I tend to prefer the red brand to the blue one, but that's irrelevant.
The big hassle of welding up a boat is that you have to skip around all over the place and gun length is limited. The power supply (even with inverter machine) is heavy and bulky, a lot of time can be lost moving it around, back and forth, up and down (you will not carry a power supply up ladder or crawling under a boat, the suitcase is no problem)
The miller suitcase is fairly ergonomic to move, it is a little heavy with a brand new wire 33lbs wire spool but used with 12lbs spools it's a charm when skipping all over the boat and saves a lot of lazy related negligence in the welding schedule. Welding up a boat is not like common on the bench welding work, the ideal setup isn't either.

Remember that buying the power supply you will still need a wire feeder so don't consider the price difference between a suitcase or no suitcase but between suitcase or an other wire feeder.

Now for Frostie's idea of tacking together the hull with el cheappo stick welder....why? You still need the good gear to weld it up. Why do that to yourself. Tack up with good MIG wire, it's still part of building your boat. Much of the impurities and other flaws in the welding will happen at the tacks even more so if they involved flux (stick does). Other point: you're working on a grounded steel beast: the stick is always live....always have to be wary of when or were you put the thing down. Stick welding has it's reasons to be: the past and the bush. To weld up a potentially very valuable piece of pride I don't believe in skimping.

For Safewalrus idea....not bad. But my husband seems to have found a better one.....he married the welder (not sure he got the cheap deal though)

Cheers,
Murielle

[lazeyjack]

i have used it alll, and I prefer the transformer type
my suggestion, is look on ebay, if you have 3 phase, buy a grunter, something that will last forever, millar, deltaweld, or hobart megaflex or Lincon, mig, tig(dc) and stick,
the control for stick on these machines is ideal for pro or amatuer, you can control the arc force which will let you run very low current without "sticking" of the rod, ideal for vertical ups
You can weld ally and stell in straight mig, all day at high amps, and you can tig stainless steel, although the min amps is often high at 50, but using the arc force control you have good control
choosing the feeder and gun is hard, match with miller, or hoftiger or binzel asssist guns for soft(ally wire ) assist guns are a must for soft wire, If you want to weld steell then the feed rolls on the feeder are enough Since Hobart stopped making there inline pulling gun, there are no true pulling guns made anywhere
my recomendation is, dont buy a new inverter setup with pulse and programmes for everything because with feeder and assist, it will be around the 15k
So look on ebay , and if you want advise pm me, If you want look at my gallery , I trained up welders and got them tickets, we had to in order to satisfy survey requirements

http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLER-XMT-350-M...162142439QQihZ
010QQcategoryZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
although this is good buying, take a search Lincoln too
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lincoln-IdealArc...QQcmdZViewItem

buying a welder is like buying a truck, you can buy a big 3ph grunter, and it will pull 300 amps all day, weld 1/4 rods and iron powder etc, low hydrogen
then you can buy a cheapo welder with low duty cycle, rather like a Kenworth/Cummins truck, compared to a Izuzu RICE BURNER,

[mydauphin]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I would wait till you employed someone,-- then ask him what welder he wants.
Then he cant blame the welder for crap work.

Just for tacking stuff together you can use a real cheapo stick welder 100 dollar job. Then weld stuff together and practise,--just weld, weld, weld, then when you read a book,-- you know what they are talking about.

PLUS, hire a guy that already has welder.... See his work, make him show you what he can do, That said, my welder has this gigantic old machine, over 25 years old. works really good, better than new welder. Welder has been welding with same machine for 25 years...

[Brent Swain]

A 225 amp AC buzzbox is all I've needed for the dozens of steel boats I've built.
Brent Swain

[westlawn5554X]

I have miller and Lincoln juke box in my fab shop and shipyard... come to think of it in most of my repair shop... dont settle for crap...

[Wynand N]

I use a 200amp inverter for tack welding all the bits and pieces together - it's DC smooth and light weight to move around.
For welding up the hull/deck a 300amp Miller MIG unit.

[westlawn5554X]

inverter is recommend for welding to remote places and tight quater... I forgotten the small protable in my shop for welding up in the radio tower...

[Brent Swain]

After the boat is finished ,an alternator, set up for welding , belt driven of the engine ,is an excellent gizmo to have aboard for projects. Mine cost me $25 in an auto wreckers.
Brent

[westlawn5554X]

Yeah... that is a fun thing to have for emergency... got one powered by the back wheel of a truck...