Steel hull wooden everything else?

[lazeyjack]

I CAN NOT BELIEVE Swains post abt beefing the skeg, that is actually one massive box girdar you have there, but to take it all out, you would then need plate wheels to shape the plate you put in its place

[Brent Swain]

You cannot believe anyone would advocate making a skeg stronger?
It doesn't surprise me , lazy jack being an advocate of flimsey breakaway rudders. Given that, I wouldn't trust his judgement to design anything. His comment makes it clear that he is unable to comprehend basic structural concepts. That explains his difficulty comprehending other structural issues we have debated here.
All I see there is a shell of a skeg with absolutely no transverse support to tie it into the hull. Transverse webs require no rolling whatever. I'd go at least six feet across the hull , six inches deep in the middlle, at least a couple of webs going down into the skeg, which ,it appears will be relatively easy to weld to the sides of the skeg
Brent

[lazeyjack]

another nice shot, you can see I made solid dodger, worth weight in gold
your boat could look like this?

[Butch .H]

That is a nice boat

[treeclimber@xtr]

That's beautiful (and my wife really likes it too) . She asked if there are any other photos

[Brent Swain]

It's interesting to see people go for soft dodgers that are never let down, then fall apart. Their second dodger is almost always solid.
Go for a proper wheelhouse instead. You'll never again be satisfied with sitting out in the weather , even if it is under a dodger. A leanto ( dodger) is no substitute for a cabin ( wheelhouse )when it comes to comfort and safety. Ouside only steering positions are a throwback from the days of press gangs , when people went to sea against their will. They are downright foolish, now that we have a choice.
Brent

[treeclimber@xtr]

Cool thanks Brent. Solid dodger it is then.

[Brent Swain]

Go beyond solid dodger to a full wheelhouse with the heat of the cabin to keep you comfortable. I cruise the BC coast in the dead of winter in a T shirt, from inside my wheelhouse, with the stove glowing cherry red. I look out at the weather and relise it doesn' make much diferencet if it is july or december out there if you are in a wheelhouse. Sometimes I get to laugh at the guys in their half million dollar boats , freezing their asses off in open cockpits.
Brent

[Arvy]

In order to be able to build a decent wheelhouse, and still have a large (but not too large, think about seaworthiness) enough cockpit and still have a large enough cabin, your boat has to be at least over 44 ft. I drew up one of 48 feet having these features, but still found it hard to get enough cabin space. And I only need 3 berths.

There is also a downside to a solid wheelhouse, although it might be comfortable on cold days with not very much wind, you miss out on a lot of contact with the outside world and therefor with the feel what is going on. When you get into serious heavy weather you have a rather large surface with which the wind can play... (not to mention the large windows in it) when you have a soft dodger you can remove it.

On the other hand, there are designs that use the wheelhouse for a larger angle of vanishing stability.

I personally also like solid over soft, and even a wheelhouse over a dodger, but I am working on a 42ft boat, so not much room for a wheelhouse.

just my 2 cents

[treeclimber@xtr]

Thanks for your input much appreciated

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by Arvy

In order to be able to build a decent wheelhouse, and still have a large (but not too large, think about seaworthiness) enough cockpit and still have a large enough cabin, your boat has to be at least over 44 ft. I drew up one of 48 feet having these features, but still found it hard to get enough cabin space. And I only need 3 berths.

There is also a downside to a solid wheelhouse, although it might be comfortable on cold days with not very much wind, you miss out on a lot of contact with the outside world and therefor with the feel what is going on. When you get into serious heavy weather you have a rather large surface with which the wind can play... (not to mention the large windows in it) when you have a soft dodger you can remove it.

On the other hand, there are designs that use the wheelhouse for a larger angle of vanishing stability.
it is not a wheelhouse its a dodgerbut you a re right about angle vanishing, I did this here
this boat (thread) we built 3 two with solid and one with soft, both sociable, the one in pic above circumnaved and they said was a godsend
Some Americans close the whole lot in with curtains, may as well stay home)

I personally also like solid over soft, and even a wheelhouse over a dodger, but I am working on a 42ft boat, so not much room for a wheelhouse.

just my 2 cents

it is not a wheelhouse its a dodgerbut you a re right about angle vanishing, I did this here
this boat (thread) we built 3 two with solid and one with soft, both sociable, the one in pic above circumnaved and they said was a godsend
Some Americans close the whole lot in with curtains, may as well stay home)

[Brent Swain]

When It's arctic outflow conditions here on the BC coast I don't need a "Feel" for whats going on outside. I know exactly whats going on outside, It's friggin freezing.
Leaving the helmsman vulnerable to hypothermia and the increased risk of being washed overboard is just plain bad seamanship. I've yet to hear of anyone being washed out of a wheelhouse.
You say all non masochists shoud stay home? Maybe if the masochists would stay home , there would be a lot less need to waste taxpayers money on search and rescue.
Wanna suffer? Go beat your head against the wall. Its quicker and cheaper.
Or take an ice cold shower fully clothed, for the
sheer enjoyment of it. Same effect .
Wheelhouses work well on my 31 footer. I wouldn't be without mine. It drastically increases the internal space, something that's in short supply on smaller boats. Can't have that on smaller boats , can we? Only those who can afford oversized boats ( penis extenders) should be allowed to be comfortable while cruising?
If you have a well balanced hull, windage on a wheelhouse is a non issue ,if the wheelhouse is not any bigger than it need be. If you have a poorly balanced hull, then it doesn't make much difference what you have or don't have for a wheelhouse. The hull is the problem , not the wheelhouse.
Brent

[Arvy]

Brent, I think you misread my post.. I said that I would too go for a wheelhouse, but find it extremely difficult to place one on a small yacht. It takes a lot of comprises on the interior space (unless you combine it with some sort of decksaloon) and on exterior space in the cockpit as well.

Btw most people are only sailing in the summer, so there is much less need for a wheelhouse. And those people often also want to be outside when docked, for example with some friends.

In one of my designs (48 ft) I drew a wheelhouse too, but for a boat smaller than that there are too many compromises that have to be made regarding the order parts of the boat (cabin/cockpit).

So now you made me curious how you did put a wheelhouse on a 31footer, can you post some pics?

Grtz,
Arvy

[Brent Swain]

I put the gallley in the wheelhouse along with the head , with a steering seat in front of the head and a drop down chart drawer in front of that. This lets me cook a meal,or get rid of one while still being able to see where I'm going.
Ahead of that I have two settee berths with a swing out table between them . Ahead of that I have a big V berth. I have been living aboard and cruising 11 months a year for 24 years with this setup and wouldn't change a thing. Having the head in the back corner of the wheelhouse let me leave the rest of the cabin wide open with no full bulkheads.
A freind who decided to cut his wheelhouse off , was making a snack below while singlehanded, and ended up pounding across 300 meters of coral reef in a big swell, while leaving Suva. Fortunately he was in one of my origami 36 footers, so there were no serious dents , altho all the paint was pounded off the bottom.
Had he had a galley in a wheelhouse , he could have fed himself while keeping a good watch, and steering.
Brent

[Manie B]

Here is a lovely design that shows a nice wheelhouse on a small boat = 25 ft

this could probably be a good candidate for origami building as well.



here is the page link

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/coaster.html